77% of Democrat voters thinking that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza does not mean that 77% of Democrat voters think that the United States should fundamentally change its relationship with Israel without evidence.
- This is bullshit.
- Even if it weren’t bullshit, “Don’t vote for Trump” ought to be enough. It is wildly disingenous to pretend that it’s just mild preference against a gross guy.
It’s not correct to say Dems stand for nothing, and it’s an outright lie to say she didn’t talk about the war. She didn’t center it, true, but as you said, it’s a big-tent political effort. This is what her critics were most enraged about… not that she didn’t include enough planks in her platform, but that the concerns of the activist class weren’t elevated over the rest of the coalition.
And even if the platform were nothing but “Trump is the most dangerous fascist the world has ever seen, a threat to peace, justice and the climate”, this is worth getting in line and waiting 8 hours for.
That’s not so much an argument for sticking with existing policy, as it is for giving up the Democrats as a lost cause and fleeing the country.
If that’s the thing on one’s list of reasons to flee the country because of existing foreign, as an example, policy, then one’s list in very lacking.
There’s nothing in existing Middle East foreign policy that shouldn’t be on one’s list.
It’s more that at that point, the nation isn’t worth fighting for.
…from the very same poll:
So no, not 77%. 75% of people who vote for the Dems think that the United States should fundamentally change its relationship with Israel.
I’m glad you bought that up. I had neglected to mention that. But that, along with the 66% of independents who ALSO think that the United States should fundamentally change its relationship with Israel, is quite relevant here.
Welcome to the real world where things like this can’t be taken for granted.
This is why you lose.
Elections are won. You have to fight to win elections. They don’t get handed to you on a platter. I’m not “pretending that it’s just mild preference against a gross guy.” This is the reality of the world that we live in. You’ve got to fight voter suppression. Fight the propaganda. Fight for the poor, fight for the marginalised. You’ve got to give people something to vote for.
What do they stand for?
My “don’t mention the war” was a sarcastic riff on Fawlty Towers.
But this was about as much as I remember Harris said about what was happening in Gaza:
Can’t you feel the empathy? Gosh, she cares so much about the Palestinian people. Now how about we talk about the price of bread? /s What else did she say? I remember her telling protestors “I’m speaking.” That went down well. I can’t remember much else, not that it matters.
Because again: the big problem isn’t that she “didn’t talk about the war”. Because it isn’t a war. It’s a genocide. And the Biden administration was complicit.
77% of Democrats think it’s a genocide. 75% of Democrats wanted to stop funding the genocide.
This “big tent” doesn’t look that inclusive to me. A very clear majority think that the United States should fundamentally change its relationship with Israel. But the Harris campaign didn’t even acknowledge this.
It’s a genocide.
You don’t have to be afraid to say it. Most Democrats believe it.
Harris was complicit in the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people.
That was what people were enraged about.
The activist class had been beaten up under the Biden administration. The campus protests were an exemplar of that. You can’t be silent while people are doxxed, beaten up, evicted, fired from their jobs, and prevented from getting their diplomas and then expect them to enthusiastically come out and support you.
And yet the Dems lost the house, the senate, the executive and the supremes for a generation.
But by all means, there is no need for any self-reflection, though. I’m sure if you do the same thing over and over again, then perhaps next time it will work out for you.
Funny that you still can not provide any evidence for this because “oppose sending more military aid to Israel for their efforts in the war with Hamas” ain’t it.
…ummm, yes, it actually is.
It’s all we can really do. It’s ultimately Israel’s decision to genocide the Palestinians, the US President isn’t King of the World. As a nuclear power outside military invention against Israel isn’t going to happen, the Palestinians lack the military power to defend themselves from Israeli aggression, which means they are going to be genocided. The US doesn’t get a vote in the issue.
From your keystrokes to Banquet_Bear’s brain.
Did you leave out a “no” before the better in the part I bolded?
…well they do, actually. They could help fund and support it, or they could just not do that.
What does this even mean?
Given the power disparity between Israel and the Palestinians it’s performative either way.
…no it wouldn’t be performative. At the very least, it would mean they would no longer be complicit. But you can do boycotts. You can arrest the war criminals. You can sanction. You can end the funding. There are multiple things you can do without having to put boots on the ground.
Another issue, IMHO, is that the DNC tried to call the bluff of these peace purists only to find out that it wasn’t actually a bluff.
The DNC, and Harris, were thinking, “Those folks complain about Gaza but don’t actually mean their threats. When push comes to shove, they’ll fall in line and vote Democratic because the only other alternative is Trump-MAGA-GOP. It’s not fun seeing what Israel is doing to Gazans, but they’ll swallow it.”
Then on Election Night, the DNC discovered to its horror that these purists actually did mean it.
As the saying goes, Democrats fall in love, but Republicans fall in line. It’s not Democrats who fall in line.
Yes, but they won’t work. Once Israel developed nuclear weapon the genocide of the Palestinians became effectively inevitable. Israel was never going to stop short of being forced to at gunpoint by a superior military force.
What voting for Trump did was ensure that any of them here will be killed as well.
…genocide is never inevitable. This one in particular happened because for decades the world looked away. We don’t have to look away any more.
It happened because Israel is a colonialist project; genocide was always going to happen unless forcibly stopped, and the Palestinians are the people available to be killed. Once the Palestinians are dead they’ll pick another target. The whole world could be screaming at them and they wouldn’t stop, Israel is doing what Israel is for.
… genocide is never inevitable.
I GET that you’ve given up.
But the truth is for all the talk about how it’s all the “leftist purists” fault, the reality is that at least the “leftist purists” are still fighting.
“From the river to the sea.”