When the attacking side can’t be stopped it is.
No?
A system that tolerates nazis is better than a system run by nazis. Im shocked i have to clarify the most obvious and uncontroversial thing Ive said here.
A - you’re confusing people you see online who tell you that Trump being bad should be good enough with people who choose the democratic party’s platform and strategy. None of that is up to us. If it were up to me, Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, who were both fine with all of Obama’s war crimes never would’ve been nominated. However now that someone other than me has given me these choices, I realize that i should always vote for “not trump” and seeing people tie themselves in knots to justify the orher position is beyond frustrating.
B - one of the most effective formsof propaganda in a first-past-the-post system is to convince your opponents not to vote, and the idea that Trump was a peace candidate and whichever Democrat was a war candidate was a huge part of that.
…they can be stopped.
No I’m not.
You can’t blame the “left purists” for that. Most of the “left purists” were not arguing that “Trump was the peace candidate”. Like Uncommitted. They explicitly said don’t vote for Trump.
But Biden and Harris were both complicit in genocide. That’s just a fact. That isn’t propaganda.
So for anyone who thinks I was exaggerating about “Genocide Kamala”, here it is, from someone who admits he really “can’t remember” what she said, and will find find something lacking in the things she did say.
The fact is that the Democratic platform included many different planks, and the complaint here isn’t that activist concerns weren’t included, it’s that they weren’t elevated above every single other concern in the coalition. That you cannot simply say the word “genocide” and bend half the country to your will.
That’s what the activist class is really angry about. In every election they’ve tried to hijack the Democratic party to their own ends, and it’s failed repeatedly because it’s unpopular. They thought this time they certainly found the cheat code, and it failed again.
yeah. Fantastic advice directed at the party who most often wins the popular vote, and wins the electoral vote about half the time, from the faction that consistently loses. You’re definitely the experts on how to win elections, please keep the advice coming.
This is both a dumb idea on the part of uncommitted and how propaganda and negative campaigning work.
The pro Trump people don’t need to convince people 100% that Trump is a dove. They just need to get enough people to think that there isn’t enough of a difference that they don’t need to bother voting. But even on this specific issue there was a huge difference between the candidates.
Harris did a shit job making that clear and also people who should know better bought the propaganda.
…yes or no question: are you denying that Biden and his administration were complicit in the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza?
Was it a genocide or not?
You don’t think they were angry about the silence from democrats and the administration about being beaten up, doxxed, and their livlihoods ruined?
They lost the house, the senate, the executive and the supremes in probably the most consequential election of our lifetimes. They tried to hide the fact that Biden was unwell. They put a muzzle on Walz. It was a truly pathetic display.
And you just can’t admit it.
Ah, I see.
Another one that doesn’t want to talk about what Uncommitted were talking about: the genocide of the Palestinian people.
Why won’t you talk about that? Because that’s who Uncomitted represented. Why on earth would they endorse a person from the administration that was complicit in that genocide?
If Uncomitted were a problem, the solution was to simply stop funding and supporting the genocide. Since the Democrats didn’t want to do that, then why would you expect people to stop using their voices in opposition?
I swear, if this were the 1940s, most of you would be defending the American government if it were a Democrat in office and they were funding Nazi Germany.
I think Israel is committing genocide in againnst Palestinians. If I were president I would veto all military aid to Israel.
I’m not. I realize the democrats who actually were in charge were opposed to drawing that line but a predictable outcome of letting their opponent win (which we are now seeing) is an acceleration of the genocide in Gaza and the beginning of at least annexation and ethnic cleansing in Lebanon. I was fully aware cutting all aid to Israel wasn’t on the ballot and voted for harm reduction which should be the default pro Palestinian position on the general election
…and the thing is, I’m not disagreeing!
I’ve always argued that people should vote for Harris. And if I could have, I would have.
But people had the right to say what they said. And that is completely out of your control. And if Uncommitted refused to endorse Harris, that is their right. That isn’t “propaganda”. That isn’t “playing into Trump’s hands.” That is the right of people in a democracy.
The real problem is that they had to do it in the first place. They wouldn’t have had to if the Biden administration weren’t complicit in what is happening to this day in Gaza.
I love this notion that the President can veto all military aid to Israel without a veto-proof majority in both chambers that supports it.
Which was not going to happen no matter who got elected.
But what do I know about that being an American that understands how our system works and does not work.
…I love the notion that a President can’t do something as simple as condemn the genocide of the Palestinian people. Or when his administration says “Rafah is a red line” that really didn’t mean anything at all.
Are you an American that can state you oppose the genocide of the Palestinian people? And can you admit that the Biden administration were complicit in that genocide?
Fuck off.
…I’ll take that as a maybe.
Yes, more meaningless acts, like not voting, that do not save a single Palestinian life but lets folks like you feel soo morally superior.
But why am I wasting my time with people that do not understand Hobson’s Choices or Trolley Problems?
…I mean, whats a little genocide among friends, amirite?
It’s not as if the President of the United States is the most powerful person on the planet. He’s just a helpless little delicate flower when it comes to genocide.
Who is the real evil? It’s those leftist purists. /s
This.
Also, this.
I think that was the revolving grievance of this election cycle, yes. Last cycle it was something else, next cycle it will be something different, because ultimately it’s about a fringe faction trying to take control of a popular party because they keep getting rejected at the polls.
That’s the truth that nobody wants to admit. Lots of people like a socialist policy here and there, but leftists are not popular and never will be popular except in their own revolutionary fantasies. They will never achieve power on the nationwide stage. That’s why they put all their effort into trying to hijack the Democrats rather than “fighting for it” or whatever rot you’re accusing the Democrats of not doing.
The “activist class” produces propaganda for themselves, they make no effort to pull real numbers, because that would involve strategic compromise. Their tactic is to force others into strategic compromise. It rarely if ever works, but they keep flinging themselves against that brick wall. There’s no reflection. There’s no course-correction. It was Bernie grievance in 2016, in 2024 it was genocide, in 2028 it will be something else, but the prescription will never change: attack Democrats.
I can readily admit that a party that wins elections will also lose some, and no campaign is ever conducted entirely according to my ideals and preferences. However, I can’t follow you to the conclusion that it’s because they didn’t speak the magical word “genocide” enough to your taste, that they overweighted boring stuff like opposing a fascist takeover in our own country. It just doesn’t follow.
I can get behind the “fuck the leftist purist” sentiment. But I don’t blame them for 2024, instead I blame the many, many Americans who voted for Trump knowing full well who he is and what he’s done. Oh, and the enablers in office.
The idea that the Democrats lost because the were too pro Israel is such a ridiculous concept that only the truly delusional can believe it. If Harris had actually supported Israel, she might be President now.