Fuck you, pkbites

The BBQ Pit
181

Dunno if I should chime in or not… I’m tired, and I don’t want to argue about this after I post it… Agree or don’t with me, I don’t give a damn… I’m trying to hold myself to what I view as a higher moral standard, a standard I know I can’t always reach… But I try, which is a lot more than a lot of people can say…

There are a lot of different groups of people I actively hate. Bigots rank right up there at the top. Actually, right next to rapists (child or otherwise) as animals who don’t deserve to live in human society.

How can any human being look at another human being and denounce them for what they believe in or what they do. If their actions do not violate the basic fundamental rights of another then what crime, moral or legal have they commited?

Oh you say, they have commited a crime in the eyes of god… A god that’s ignored you for 2000 years. There’s a reason why I dislike religion. Its the fact that while it tries to promote a unity, a feeling of acceptence and love within the religious community, at the same time it denounces everyone else. Depending on who you ask, their faith and their strength of their beliefs, I’ve had some interesting answers.

How you can you find any moral authority in a religious structure that tells you outright that you are ‘right’ the ‘chosen’ and others are wrong? What about those religious leaders that inflame their followers to slaughter those people belonging to groups that their religion condems? Most religions believe that God is caring and looks after his creations… Yet so much energy is spent in some circles pointing out which people are worth less than others. And you call it the word of god. I supose if you must look another person in their face and tell them that they are worthless, believing that God instructs you to be that way makes you feel better.

What disgusts me about this is its the minority that believe this… and the minority that act on it. Yet all of you stand around and don’t do anything. We let these people broadcast their hate… This is probably the main reason why I refuse to interact with most of the outside world. There is only so much I can fight against… I believe that if you ignore or don’t speak out against bigots and their messages you’re agreeing with them, giving them your permission to continue. After all, if it REALLY bothered you wouldn’t you speak out?

PKbites…

What disgusts me about you is that I’ve had friends… Good friends, good people. Who are better people morally than you are. Some of them are deeply religious, some of them agree as you do about homosexuality… But they didn’t let that get in the way of their beliefs that every person, provided their actions don’t hurt another have every right to live happy safe lives doing what ever makes them happy. They spoke out against hatred and intolerance. They worked to bridge understanding between ethnic groups that hated each other. They spoke out against ‘gay-bashing’…

And they were killed for it.

And you’re alive.

When I think about it… I don’t know if I should laugh, cry or rage against the world.

A friend of mine. A very very nice girl… She was living in Israel… She believed deeply in the ‘cause’ of Israel, she believed they needed to be safe in a region when many many people wanted them dead and believed they were evil. But you know what she did? She volunteers to teach children… teach both Israeli and Palestinian children, to try to get a mutual understanding, she always hoped that both sides could reconcile and there could be peace. At 16 she dedicated her life to this.

They found her body. She had been raped many times before they killed her. After all, she was a Jew and she was teaching Palestinian children.

She’s dead.

And yet hate mongers like PKbites are alive…

Praise God

182

Oh, CRorex, I am so sorry for your loss. Hon’, I don’t know how you feel about virtual hugs or anything, but I’ve got as many as you would care to have. I just don’t know what to say. I am just sickened by how vicious and hateful folks can be. :frowning:

183

Celestina, its ok. Even she figured she’d end up dead if things got worse in the region (this was when I last spoke with her about 4 years ago).

And why be sad… She actually tried to do something to help the world she lived in. That doing so required her life is terrible, she at least tried to make a difference.

184

CRorex, I am glad that you celebrate her life and her courageous spirit. I admire folks who work to make a difference in folks’ lives, but I just get so upset and so sad when I see or hear of inhumanity that is perpetuated by folks who claim to be human beings. :frowning:

185

So is it okay for me to choose to actively avoid you because you are promiscuous?

I guess what I’m saying is that, yes, I’m prejudiced against promiscuous people. And that’s a prejudice I can live with, hopefully without being labelled as “bigoted,” “close-minded,” “repressed,” or what have you. (Tangential question: Do I have to accept being labelled thusly for having this stance?)

I dunno. I’m really trying to learn how to do the right thing, and threads like this just make me more confused.

I’m a Star Trek fan. Have been since I was a kid. Watched every episode of TOS, TNG, etc. At college a guy who was part of the circle I hung out with was an actual Trekker. “Captain” (or whatever) of the local ST fan club.

I did not really like this guy. I tried my hardest to avoid him when our group was together, actively worked to not get roped into a one-on-one conversation with him.

He invited me to a meeting of his ST fan club chapter. Trying to be wholly open minded, I went. Hoo-wee…The people there were geeks of an extreme order. As the evening wore on I found I had little in common with them. I gradually formed an opinion that these were people desperately in need of a life - they had way to much emotionally invested in a television show.

Later he invited me to a ST convention. To this day I hope he didn’t see the violent shudder that passed through me. To be surrounded by thousands of… those type of people… for hours on end… and PAYING to do so…

I just told him I had something else going that weekend.

So I avoided this guy because he was a Trekker. I avoided the Trekkers he knew. I avoided a gathering of Trekkers because I disagree with the whole Trekker lifestyle. Frankly, it makes me uncomfortable.

But I don’t condemn them for living it. I just go out of my way to avoid 'em, especially when they are flaunting their Trekker-ness.

Is this wrong?

186

Nope

What I’m trying to get at… there’s a difference between not liking a group of people for what they do or say (like you avoiding trekers cause the one’s you’ve met are a little wierd in the head). And saying that because they’re treckers they are worth less as human beings.

You’re always going to meet people who you don’t like due to your value system. Its how you react to those people who determine if you’re a bigot or not I think. I know a number of people who hold values I don’t like but they are, despite that good people, so I just ignore the bits about them that I don’t like and don’t get involved in that aspect of their lives.

I hope nobody here is saying to not be a bigot you have to totally disregard your value system… Its a matter of how you act on it. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and if there are people you don’t feel comfortable around then simply don’t hang out around them. Your stance on promiscuity (is that even a bloody word?) imho is fine. You don’t say anything about them being wrong or bad, its simply not a way you chose to live your life and don’t want associate with that.

Dunno, I’m not making any sense with this I feel… Silly Thai food, makes me sleepy (and the beer I had with it :))

187

Well, tygr, aside from wondering why you would choose not to hang out with promiscuous people (do you think you’ll get Slut Cooties, or what?) I can’t help agreeing you have the right to hang out with whoever you please. I’d just appreciate it if you would refrain from belittling or harassing promiscuous people. And the situation is congruent for pkbites.

188

Well, that right there is the difference, isn’t it? You didn’t like this guy, or his friends, or his hobbies, but you didn’t want to hurt his feelings so you invented some excuses and avoided the guy. No problem. If, on the other hand, you had said, “You want me to pay to hang out with hundreds of people who are just as pathetic as you? Fuck no, fuck you, and fuck off,” then you would be an asshole.

Now, lets apply this to pkbites. bites doesn’t like gay people. Fine. Everyone is entitles to their own opinion. However, to come into a thread you know a lot of gay people are reading, and say, essentially to their face, that gay people are creepy perverts and you won’t associate with them, well, that sounds an awful lot like assholery to me.

Really, it’s amazing how much of this comes down to simple good manners.

189

Excellent point, Miller. Everyone has ugly thoughts now and again. But you don’t have to say them out loud. (Or type them, as the case may be.)

190

I do believe Miss Manners would agree.

Esprix

191

So, then, in that (famous?) SNL skit where William Shatner told the convention goers to “Get a life!”, he was being an asshole?

And if I voiced my opinion on promiscuity, then I, too, would be an asshole?

192

Tygr: Do you mean in the context of the sketch, or because he performed the sketch? In the context of the sketch, the character “William Shatner” was being an incredible asshole. These are a bunch of people who paid a fair amount of money to hear Cap’n Kirk talk, and he just lays into them for no good reason. What a jerk.

Was the actor William Shatner an asshole for performing the sketch? I’d say no, although it’s harder to articulate why. The fact that most Trekkies seemed to appreciate the joke is certainly part of it. Shatner isn’t a Trekkie himself, but he’s an integral part of the phenomenon, which gives him more leeway to make fun of it. And, of course, it was on SNL, which is pretty equal opportunity when it comes to making fun of people. It didn’t treat Trekkies any more harshly than it has any other group of people. I think you would have to be hyper-sensitive to criticism to take that sketch personally.

If, however, the question is simply, “Is William Shatner an asshole?” I understand the general consensus is “Yes.”

Finally, as to your opinion about promiscuity, it would depend on the circumstance in which you voiced your opinion and the manner in which you expressed it. If you went into a thread titled, “How do you feel about promiscuity?” and said you felt it was dangerous and unhealthy, then you’re not an asshole. (Why do I suddenly feel like Jeff Foxworthy?) If you went into a thread where matt was complaining about the weather in Canada and called him a disgusting slut, then you’re an asshole. Or possibly flirting.

193

Most people at Star Trek conventions are quite normal. Yeah you get the imbeciles who dress up like Spock, or actually speak Klingon, but most of 'em are pretty average. A bit dorky, but not the “Starfleet Fan Club” types. I’ve been watching Trek since I could walk, and can practically quote TWOK from memory… but those people bug me, too.

194

Depends on how you voice it. Are you not getting that?

Esprix

195

Not to cause a derail, but Shatner was initially opposed to the “Get a Life!” skit, because he thought it was rude to Trek fans, and that it would hurt them (and thus, his wallet, no doubt). However, he was talked into doing it (along with Kirk’s Cafe, another good Trek skit from that episode that no one remembers), and it was a big hit among fans. they show it at conventions.

As for whether Shatner’s an asshole, the consensus is that he certainly used to be one, but that he’s mellowed quite a bit in recent years (ever since he found out all of the secondary cast in Classic Trek hated his guts).

Kirk

196

Oh, and I’m Con Chair for the annual LGBT sci-fi convention, Gaylaxicon, here in San Diego in 2004. Tell all your friends. :smiley:

Esprix

197

Am I the only one getting really strange visuals from this?

A ship descends-it is triangular, and pink.

A door opens and a walkway descends. Rather than standard grey, its segments are brightly colored-it is reminiscent of a rainbow.

A group of beings descend. They move with a delicate grace.

Their leader speaks "Take us to Coventry. We wish to meet this Tom person"

OR

 A group of beings descend. They are dressed in strange uniforms. Their leader speaks.

“We bid you greetings. My people come from the planet Vil-Laj.”

On a, slightly, more serious note-Being a transexual in the Trek universe seems to be a breeze. Dr Bashir was able to do sexual-reassignement-surgery as an out-patient procedure. Forget phasers or warp drive, SRS so quick and cheap that you could take a vacation as another gender would make life really interesting.

198

When was this?

199

[quotes]

So I’m adding this post to say that I fully understood and am supporting you in that thread and this one.

[/quote]

Thank you, Polycarp. I think most my fellow gay folk misunderstood my position, though. I fully deplore PKBites position, but I defend his right to his beliefs. I said the exact same thing (albeit in stronger terms) in the flagburning thread, but people willfully twisted my words.

I would recommend thatHayduke Lives, PKBites and others of their kind actually educate themselves about gay folk and their contributions to the world. I would also suggest that they explore their confidence in their own sexuality and find out why they are so afraid of other people’s same-sex feelings.

As I was doing my lunchtime run today, I ran past a man and a woman holding hands. A gay version of PKBites’ beliefs would go: “Ew, that’s gross. Why should I have to put up those weirdos flaunting the heterosexuality in front of decent folk? They were being sexual in front of God and everybody!”

Tst, tsk, tsk.

200

I know - why don’t they just keep it in the bedroom where it belongs?

Esprix