I make a point to ask my host when they usually eat breakfast. Then make sure I’m up in time to say hello before it’s time to eat.
Usually not a big issue for me. I typically stop at friends overnight on cross country trips. I’m back on the highway after breakfast. Occasionally I stay 2 nights at close friends houses. Never more than that.
Meals can be a problem. I’m a bit picky. I’d never say anything to my host of course. I make do with whatever they serve.
Hm what a diabetic will not eat - sugary crap what a diabetic needs to eat - low glycemic carbs, proteins, fats. Wonder if bitch offered her nothing but pastries, juice, mimosas … all stuff diabetics really can’t just chow down on with impunity. Stepmonster Dearest should learn how a diabetic needs to maintain …
If the stepmonster is also doing the traditional diet food shuffle, a lot of stuff is subbed with sugars and other ingredients that are not diabetic friendly.
Whoo boy…
When you are a guest in another’s house, you do not declare what you will and will not eat – unless you are positively allergic to something.
Meh. If you have something you completely loathe it isn’t rude for you to make your host aware of it…if they ask. If not, then politeness would simply be to decline a helping: Thank you, but broccoli is not to my taste" does just fine IMHO. A good host checks in advance and cooks accordingly. There is a difference between that and serving whatever a guest asks for like a hotel.
**
You do not remark that you do not have enough food. You do not start before everyone else.**
Needs context.
**
You do not take additional helpings without being invited to by your host.**
What, even if it’s on the table? Antiquated. We no longer have servants. If we DO have servants then they are not doing their job. If the host is acting in this role then THEY are derelict in their duty.
**
When a guest in another’s house, you do not lie in bed until late morning in households that rise early – you fall in line with house norms.**
Not unless there is a scheduled event. Guest who miss breakfast may avail themselves of the muffins and coffee and wash up their cups and saucers. Guests who sleep so late that they do not have time for food can go without until lunch or buy some crisps while they are out and about.
**
You should have hand-written a card to me. You have never written to thank me when you have stayed.**
Antiquated in both practice and application.
**
You regularly draw attention to yourself. Perhaps you should ask yourself why.**
Bitchiness.
No one gets married in a castle unless they own it. It is brash, celebrity style behaviour.
Bitchiness.
**I understand your parents are unable to contribute very much towards the cost of your wedding. (There is nothing wrong with that except that convention is such that one might presume they would have saved over the years for their daughters’ marriages.) If this is the case, it would be most ladylike and gracious to lower your sights and have a modest wedding as befits both your incomes. **
Bitchiness and snobbery.
I can’t be the only one who sees the humor in someone called Kimmy Gibbler writing about how to be a good guest, can I?
Good grief - i think your grandma was my grandma as i could have written this post about her, verbatim! Hilarious that old Canadian grandmas are such sticklers for these things!
Anyhow, regarding sleeping in when a guest in other’s homes - i think there’s a pretty big line. if i were hosting someone and said breakfast was at 9 and i was preparing X i would expect them to be there. i would also ask if that time was acceptable and if they indicated a later time i would suggest 9:30 or 10. Here’s the thing though - if the person indicated that they would get up whenever, or they preferred to sleep till noon or 2 or to just go ahead without them and they would help themselves later i would find that incredibly rude.
i didn’t invite this person because i wanted to look at their shoes sitting by the front door, i invited them to spend time with them.
Secondly, not everyone want’s guests traipsing through their kitchen helping themselves. i get VERY annoyed when people wander into my kitchen - many of my female relatives are the same - i would be delighted to get you whatever you need, but please just ask and don’t presume to wander in there on your own.
Sorry, if you’re in someone else’s house you need to get up at a reasonable hour - if you must sleep in till noon or 2 or whatever, you best do it in a hotel.
i also agree with the castle business - the DiL sounds very crass if we assume that a) she’s asking MiL for $$ and b) she does not, in fact, own a castle.
Regarding the DiL’s other breaches, they seem minor but still very annoying.
All that aside, the MiL still wins the prize for rudest ho-bag this side of Vancouver - i suspect she was trying to break this couple up, either by setting the DiL off so she and son have a huge blow out, or assuming that son would be shown the e-mail and realize that his chosen one is a classless boob (as far as MiL is concerned).
Another one who says the MIL is a clueless twat. How is this going to ‘improve’ anyone’s behavior? It’s guaranteed to drive a wedge between MIL DIL and quite possible Mother and son, too. If she had such a problem with manners, it behooves her to address them with her son, not DIL.
And the expensive castle wedding is really telling, IMO. Maybe DIL is pushing for it…but what is son saying? Is he going along with it, too? Then he is at fault, too.
Ugh, the letter is very trashy.
I heard about this on the radio yesterday, and spent the rest of my drive wondering how on earth someone manages to learn enough etiquette to consider themselves fit to instruct others without learning how insanely classless and rude such an email is.
Some of her points are valid ones, though I don’t know if they’re accurate depictions of what actually happened. It is kind of rude to sleep till noon when everyone else is having breakfast at 8, to complain about the type and quantity of food provided barring a medical issue, or to start eating before everyone else. Actually, the second thing is very rude, to the point that I wouldn’t invite someone like that back. But then again, I’m the sort of hostess who checks about dietary restrictions and preferences and specifically plans around them, so if the food I serve conflicts with your medical issues, it’s your own goddamn fault.
The other stuff, though? Bothersome, but not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Certainly not a big enough deal to send an email complaining about them. If I think someone’s manners are egregious enough to merit telling them off, you can bet your ass there will be much graver sins at play. Chewing with your mouth open or walking around my kitchen naked or such.
I want to start by fully aggreeing with the poster who said many of these remarks should have been prefaced by “in our family” or “our family tradition” or something of the sort. That said:
It more politely worded than saying “you’re an uncouth barbarian raised in a pig sty and I doubt you are capable of learning anything but I’ll try anyway” but that’s essentially what she’s saying. Which is rude, even if politely worded, and a sure way to generate hostility in the person addressed.
Also, the crack about “unfortunately for Freddie he’s fallen in love with you” is despicable. Clearly, MIL loathes DIL. If MIL sincerely wanted to correct DIL she’d leave this crap out but what she really wants to do is drive DIL from MIL’s Precious.
In other words, you’re beneath the Bourne family and obviously uneducated, particularly in the social graces, hence you’re in need of expert remedial help. Heavens, why doesn’t MIL just throw garbage at the DIL?
There is some validity here - absent a legitimate medical/religious issue, you at least politely sample what is before you. If you do have a medical/religious issue you let the host/ess know before you arrive, preferably when you RSVP the invitation (another dying art, the RSVP).
This does make it sound like the DIL is the sort who claims allergy for anything she just doesn’t like, which makes her a tool.
The “do not start before everyone else” is a valid criticism.
The “you do not have enough food”? If I was a hostess and a guy said that I’d be appalled - because I was brought up that a hostess makes sure her guests are sufficiently fed. Perhaps DIL was tactless in how she said that remark, but really, if the MIL is stinting on food that’s an appalling lapse of hospitality (I’ve run into shrews who do, indeed, skimp on food for guests. I think they’re horrible people.)
What? I have NEVER heard of this. Perhaps it’s because I’m not upper class British, but seriously, guests have to wait to be invited to take seconds?
In MY culture a hostess encourages guests to eat their fill and takes it as a compliment when they go for seconds (if they opt for thirds even better!) It would be bizarre to have a table full of people waiting on a hostess to invite them to take seconds.
If the house norm is “everybody up by 7 am” then it behooves the hostess to let the guests know that - “by the way, we’re all usually up by 7 am - do you need an alarm clock or should I call you in person?” It’s arrogant to assume everyone else keeps your schedule.
If someone is traveling across multiple time zones this does require some delicate consideration - if the jet-lagged guest oversleeps the host/ess is not to mention it. If a guest is someone who normally works a night shift (this was an issue for my husband for many years) then this may need negotiating, but again that requires communication.
If you normally get up early then you should let guests know so they can retire early and be sufficiently rested to greet you in the morning.
Petty sniping from the MIL. She’s sending an e-mail but wants a hand written card? Hypocrite. On top of that, I’d rather have something printed (or electronic) over an illegible scrawl. I can just imagine MIL critiquing DIL’s writing skills, can’t you?
I suspect this is a pot calling the kettle black situation.
Oh, heavens - the MIL doesn’t approve of the wedding venue. Tough, it’s not her wedding.
Frankly, the custom of families footing the entire bill for daughter’s weddings is outdated. Hell, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge’s families split the wedding costs and if it’s good enough for the future king and queen of England Mrs. Bourne can just chill.
The implication here, again, is that the DIL’s family are social inferiors, too uncouth to know their duty to provide a proper dowry for their daughter, and/or too poor to do so.
And this is valid in that people SHOULD scale their weddings to what they can actually afford. If family wants to chip in that’s great, but these days the couple getting married needs to be responsible about who’s paying (likely them) and how it’s going to be paid for.
DIL is probably from a lower social strata, but likely she’s acting out of ignorance rather than malice. MIL, however, is a snobbish cunt even if she does have valid points. And sending such an e-mail is a definite faux pax.
If MIL really wanted DIL to improve her manners she’d do it in a much more polite way.
Yes. I’m starting to get an image of DIL at the table, light-headed and swaying on the edge of a diabetic attack, saying “I need to eat something… I need to eat now…” while MIL thinks “Stop calling attention to yourself! Not everyone is seated…”
(I find it slightly interesting that those who agree with MIL’s “sleeping in” complaint all seem to think that this meant sleeping 'til noon or something. There was nothing to suggest that; she says “late morning,” which can mean not being up and dressed at 8. For some folks around here even that would mean the normal breakfast has already been missed.)
But all this suggests that some see guests as a very different class of people than those who live in the home. I see the proper function of a welcoming host as being largely to break down that division–to make guests feel “at home.” Not like performers who have been summoned for the host’s entertainment. Of course decent guests never actually forget that they are in somebody else’s home, but it’s a mark of host failure if the awareness makes them feel pressed.
You still don’t declare it upon entering someone’s house as a guest. You have a quiet word with someone inconspicuously. Or you have your fiance inform the proper people in advance, again, quietly.
That one you just suck up and keep to yourself.
Well, MiL said ‘late morning’ which is open to interpretation i suppose. To me, late morning is 11:30 pushing 12. if MiL is pissed about DiL getting up at 7:30 and calling it late morning - well, she’s an even bigger twat.
i do wonder though - i don’t know any diabetics who sleep till noon, simply because they can’t go that long without food - this one could really go either way.
Guests are a different class of people than those that live in the home - they are guests. As a good hostess it’s my responsibility to make sure my guests have a comfortable place to sleep, a reasonable place to wash up, meals and activities. it’s not my responsibility to allow them to take over my home and treat it like their own. For all i know their house looks like an episode of hoarders and they like to stick chewing gum on their carpet and furnishings. ‘Make yourself at home’ does not mean ignore your host’s house rules in favour of your own - in fact, you’re not supposed to ‘make yourself at home’ at all if you’re a good guest. i mean god, at home i walk around in my pajamas, spend an hour soaking in the bath, and occasionally snack on something while standing over the sink. i would be a graceless buffoon if i did that in someone else’s house.
I agree, and I have only rarely been in a house where they force to take tons of a specific food at the table. Just take a tiny bit to be polite.
I’d add another manners lesson, too - don’t ever, ever tell me at the dinner table that you can’t eat a select food because it messes up your bowels or makes you poo or constipated. I DON’T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT.
Aha. It may be a topic for another thread, but this word suggests one of the fundamental faultlines I see in people’s attitudes about guests. The idea that hosts provide and determine what guests do. My feeling is that the hosts have their lives and the things they would normally do about home or town–guests may have their own reasons for being in the area, but may be welcomed into the host’s activities or accompanied in theirs as is practical–or they may choose to stroll and read and chat without particular purpose–and if there are special diversions for the occasion, host and guest talk about these together like two grown-ups.
As to the rest, you notice I said, “decent guests never actually forget that they are in somebody else’s home.” Of course they don’t take over your home, and they don’t really treat it as their own. But the host’s duty is to allow them to feel welcome nonetheless.
Generally i don’t like staying at other people’s houses. You’re always walking on eggshells and living by someone else’s schedule, so I try to do it as infrequently as possible.
Word to the wise, if you’re invited to stay at someone’s house and you don’t know them really well, the best way is to make your excuses and book a hotel nearby. Spend the days/evenings with the people who invited you and then go back to the hotel for sleeping/breakfast/washing etc.
The reason is that some people think that the way they live and organize their household is just common sense and is done the same way by everyone. I remember staying over at a friend’s house when I was in high school and getting chewed out by his mother when I used up all the hot water taking my morning shower. Seriously, I had no idea that hot water ‘ran out’ in some people’s houses. And I was used to my 20 minute shower - it was how I’d always done things. There’s no right or wrong in that situation - I didn’t deliberately inconvenience anyone, but I felt like a complete shitheel because of it for years after.
I acknowledge that the OP is a little different, in that the MIL to be is talking about what she considers ‘standard’ etiquette, but I think everyone can see that her complaints are just a thinly veiled way of saying “I hate you bitch”. Etiquette indiscretions are almost always overlooked when we actually like the person.
And to people who invite others (who aren’t nuclear-family close) to stay with them …
If you expect guests to be at certain places at certain times, or to do certain things let them know in advance.
If guests do something that doesn’t ‘fit’ with your lifestyle, be gracious in explaining how they could better fit in.
Maybe I can shed a little light on this, based on my memories of my Grandmother’s dinner table.
To put it briefly, you never helped yourself at Grandmother’s table. Grandma sat at the head of the table (my Grandfather was not in the picture, having died before I was born), with whatever the entree was before her: a roast, for example. Grandma also had a stack of dinner plates. At the other end of the table, was often my mother or my aunt, with serving dishes of potato and vegetable in front. Grandma would carve the roast, put it on a plate, and it would be passed down to (say) Mom, who would put some potatoes and vegetables on the plate. Then, the plate would be passed to whomever it was destined for, which was done on a strict order of etiquette. To make things more efficient, Grandma would be carving the next serving while the vegetables were being dished up; and for a few minutes, plates would be moving every which way. When Grandma had her meal in front of her, we would begin, as mentioned before.
When Grandma had made it most of the way (if not all) through her meal, she would invite others to have seconds. “Who would like more? Spoons? Spoons-Sis?” Mom would also pick up on this, and say something to the effect of, “There are lots of vegetables and potatoes, too. Spoons [or whoever], would you like some? How about you, Spoons-Dad?” In other words, you were invited to have seconds. If you wanted seconds, you passed your plate down to the server (Grandma or Mom), who would add whatever you wanted to your pate before passing it back. You did not ask for serving dishes to be passed to you, and neither did you (horrors!) reach for them and help yourself.
Antiquated? Extremely formal? Silly? Yes, to all three, especially to us today. But it was what Grandma insisted on. This was proper and correct dinner etiquette in her world, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it was that of the future MIL in the news item we’ve been discussing.
I’ve got to dissent a bit here. I was raised not to waste food, and thus if something is truly disgusting to you, it is better to politely decline some than waste it. What IS rude is to decline everything and nibble on crackers or the like.
If your hot water runs out in 20 minutes, the onus is on you to warn your guests. There was a definitely a shitheel in your situation, but it wasn’t you.
You guys don’t write thank you notes when you stay in people’s houses? Seriously? (A gift would serve as well, I suppose, but a note is nice.) I mean, close family is one thing, but I’d write a note if I was staying with somebody I had just met (like, say, my new step-monster-in-law) or somebody I don’t see on at least, say, an annual basis. Everybody likes a note. It’s special, it speaks of more appreciation than a handshake, and it costs less than a buck and a minute of your time. Seriously.
And it IS terribly, terribly rude to start eating before everybody else does, especially if they’re going to bust out praying or something.
On the other hand, you deal with rude-ass people by yelling at the people who brung 'em.
I’ve rarely found something that was so disgusting to me that I wouldn’t nibble, but I agree with you…then again, those foods, generally they know people don’t like them. My SO’s family eats everything from crab straight out of the shell, on newspapers (yum) to octopus (not bad, but I feel bad because they are so intelligent) to tripe (won’t eat it). I only turn down the tripe, politely. 
I’m going with Anaamika on this one, and it might be partially because we’re from a culture in which hosts are not allowed to let their guests’ plates ever be cleaned. So if you ever want to finish eating, you’re going to have to “waste” some food.
Something I heard a lot when growing up (in translation) – “A clean plate means you haven’t eaten enough.”