Not at all. The people you’re describing aren’t guests. They’re boarders. If a person has guests, he or she has a responsibility to entertain them. That doesn’t mean planning a 24 hour a day schedule for them, of course, but it does mean scheduling activities that the guest will enjoy. I mean, I assume the reason you have guests is that you enjoy their company and want to spend time with them, and so you make sure you’ll do things together that they will enjoy. That doesn’t mean not consulting them and finding out what they want to do, because of course it does, but it seems rather inhospitable to say, “Well, welcome to my home. I’m going to go now. I’ve got coffee in the cupboard if you want any, and try not to make too much of a mess in the living room. Goodbye.”
I disagree with this (except as it pertains to small children), and the rest of your post has little to do with my thinking.
That doesn’t sound too strange, Spoons. I think the key is a large dish that requires carving, or any other preparation at table besides moving the serving fork or spoon, and thus can’t be readily passed around itself or put in the center of the table. We did this with Thanksgiving turkeys, people do it with Sunday roasts, you may even see what is basically the same dynamic at a cookout with a designated grill captain. If there’s waiting involved, it’s only because the people doing the serving work should be able to eat unhurriedly themselves.
Interesting. In mine, a clean plate is a sign of a compliment to the host on the quality of his or her food. A very polite guest would wait to be asked for seconds, while one who wanted to pay even higher compliments would inquire about them.
This caused a bit of a ripple with some of my extended family when we were dining together over the holidays a few years ago. I greatly enjoyed the meal and had seconds and thirds while they moved onto coffee and dessert. (there was plenty and I don’t care for sweets or coffee) They had more formal manners about the table and at the end of the meal I was feeling like a bumpkin. Later I mentioned this, and apologized to the hostess who burst out laughing and reassured me that not only did I not offend anyone, but that it was refreshing to have guest with enthusiasm and appetite. Now it’s a running gag with us when we visit, that we’d better buy double because Acid Lamp is dining with us!
Yeah, Ascenray’s right, too. I can’t imagine ever being over an Indian family’s house and not taking at least a smidgen of cauliflower, which I HATE cooked in the Indian style (it looks and smells like nasty old brains, and tastes like rubber cooked in spices. Yuck.)
The smidgen of cauliflower would be what I leave on the plate afterwards to indicate that I am full.
Dang, wish I had known that little tidbit earlier. That certainly explains why my plate kept being piled high the last time I dined at an Indian friend’s home. :smack: On the other hand, my ability to eat, (and greatly enjoy), several plates endeared me to his mother. Good to know!
Wow. Where to start?
First of all, I wonder what Freddie’s response was to this e-mail and whether he has defended his girlfriend in the past? Sending something like this to a fiancee is NOT going to help the relationship between the mother and son.
Second, several of the items the MIL listed are ridiculous. True, the future DIL shouldn’t announce her food preferences out of turn, though most people (or at least I would) would ask in advance, “Hey, are there any foods you really dislike or dietary guidelines I should know about?” The future DIL also should know better than to start eating before anyone else. And, a good guest never complains that they’re still hungry (or complains about anything, for that matter).
How they get seconds largely depends upon how the food is served, however. At the formal meals I’ve been to, there’s usually a sideboard with all the food arranged. Wine is generally on the table. The hostess plates the food and passes it around. The guest doesn’t generally complain about her plate being empty because that means the hostess must interrupt her own meal to get food for the guest. However, to avoid such interruptions, the hostess should encourage guests to help themselves to seconds. As for wine, the hostess should ask if people want more to drink throughout the meal.
Of course, if it’s a really highbrow home with staff, the staff should notice that the guest’s plate is empty and offer more. Guests shouldn’t just get up and get more food. It’s silly, but it’s also considered gauche - that’s what the staff is there for. If the staff doesn’t notice, the hostess discretely signals to the staff to offer guests more food or drink.
But…
Writing a thank you card is a lovely gesture; however, as long as she thanked her hostess with a heartfelt grace, it’s not absolutely necessary anymore. A phone call at least should be made, but I don’t think the DIL is wildly impolite because she didn’t send a card.
Also, on sleeping in, unless the guest is regularly sleeping until 2 p.m. and/or knowingly interrupting the hostess’s planned activities, there’s no problem. If the hostess has alluded to or stated that there will be activities the next day, even if it’s a family breakfast, the guest needs to get off her ass to be there.
Still, it’s incredibly rude for the MIL to send something like this.
Oh yes, that is what they want. Americans often express irritation because when you’re a guest at an Indian person’s house and they offer you something, you’re supposed to refuse, and then they kind of force it on you…it’s a dance. It’s just the culture, though, and it’s silly to take offense.
As for your story, well, we just wouldn’t even move on to dessert and chai until we were sure everyone was well done. We stay at the table and sometimes the hostess will just be cooking more chapatis or whatever in the kitchen, as the rest of us are eating. Only when we all have refused several times will she sit down and eat.
Mmmm, now my mouth is watering for fresh-cooked chapatis. Unfortunately I would have to make them myself. 
Even assuming the DiL’s behavior was appalling (which is a big assumption from the email, which mostly seems like a few minor errors combined with a pile of miscommunication), why is she getting the email rather than the son? If there were a huge miscommunication between my parents and my husband, I’d assume it was my fault, because I’m the only person involved who knows both their house rules and the rules under which he was raised. These things vary far too much to be assumed to be universal, especially with regard to breakfast practices and house schedules.
My husband, for example, doesn’t eat early in the morning; it makes him feel ill. My parents would have been offended by how little he ate for breakfast with everyone… if I hadn’t explained to them that he’s not much of a morning eater. I did, so it was a non-issue. “Freddie” is the one who should’ve explained to his fiancee if she was stepping into an etiquette minefield. Now,maybe he did and she didn’t care, but it doesn’t sound like that from the MiL’s intro paragraph.
We have house guests frequently, and none of this stuff has ever been an issue if everyone puts a small amount of effort into communication and flexibility. Really, even with the worst possible interpretation of everything laid out in the email, the MiL’s behavior was worse.
At my husband’s Nanima’s house, she had a staff that made the most heavenly methi parathas. They were wonderful, and the cook would just keep them coming until you begged her to stop. God, I miss that.
This is interesting enough that I’m starting a spin-off thread.
I have honestly never heard of this before.
Yes, the formal carving and passing around plates the first round, yes, but AFTER that one can freely ask for dishes to be passed, help oneself, and so forth.
Of course, this gets back to the assumption that everyone has heard of doing something a particular way - if I was invited to your grandmother’s house I’d do just fine with the formal serving out, but I would ask for seconds when I reached that point on my plate because I have never heard of situation where asking for seconds on one’s own was verboten. Of course, ideally, when I was invited (perhaps by you) I’d be told dining arrangements are very formal (that* is* an extremely formal arrangement) and hopefully coached by the inviter so no one is discomforted.
Seriously, if there is a set way of doing things and you invite guests there should be some communication as regards expectations, otherwise there has been a failure on both sides because guests aren’t mind readers and not everyone has the same customs.
Do want.
Well, the way it works in our circles is that the guest is supposed to refuse twice before accepting. If the host gets three refusals, she’s supposed to stop offering that particular thing.
Apparently, it’s much, much worse in Persian culture, according to a story I heard on This American Life.
While it’s interesting to mull over all these jypotheticals, did you read the article and the email about diabetes detailed in this thread?
The girl spent 1 weekend with her future inlaws and had a diabetic attack. The mother-in-law sent 3 emails in 1 day to future daughter-in-law. One of the emails complained that the girl’s behavior left the family dog profoundly anxious and upset. The mother-in-law isn’t trying to correct behavior. She sais it is unfortunate that her son fell in love with the girl. Another article quotes the full email that says the mother pities her son for his choice for a bride. The castle is a hall in a castle, not the whole thing. And both of the girl’s parents lost their jobs in January although that bit is in a different article.
Oh, I absolutely think she’s a jerk (MIL). Who sends a letter like that.
Pardon, the job loss is detailed in the linked article. Sorry for typos above. Posting from phone.
I’m getting that sense too.
It reads like an email Lady Catherine de Bourgh would send to Elizabeth Bennet.
Dear Mrs. Bourne,
Don’t think of this wedding so much as losing a son
as losing a son, daughter-in-law, both her parents,
the chance of any relationship with any of the grandchildren
they’ll produce, holiday get-togethers, etc, etc, etc.
You wing it, you bring it.
The E-mail message by itself is inappropriate. If it is based on what happened as a result of a diabetic attack, the whole thing becomes surreal and almost unbelievable. Has this Heidi Withers actually said publicly that this is what happened?
The MIL admits the girl had an attack during the weekend per the quoted email re diabetes in this thread.