It wouldn’t be so much an issue if in one particular movie or T.V. show a character who happened to be white freed a bunch of characters who happened to be non-white. The problem is “white outsider saves dark-skinned people” happens over and over in movies, whereas people of color are hardly ever portrayed as being freed by another person of color, or managing to free themselves. Google “white savior” for much discussion of this. In the aggregate, this creates an impression of how the entertainment industry views people of color that some find insulting.
I don’t think the creators of Game of Thrones are racist, or that they’re trying to promote some racial agenda or anything like that. But I think they may have been unaware of the whole “white savior” trope and the controversy around it, and unfortunately created something that looks like a textbook example of it. So I groan a bit and feel uncomfortable, the same as if they put any other controversial racial stereotype on screen.
I think that was put in basically as way of putting it on his permanent record, because it was an action that a kingsguard normally absolutely would NOT take.
I still don’t get how this is seen as a black mark on his record. Sure, he’s supposed to be defending the King and this is the opposite of defending the King. But the King was stark raving. Some kings just need killin’, and this, from what we’ve heard, was one of them. (See also, Baratheon, Joffrey.) I mean, if somebody was on Hitler’s personal bodyguard detail and took the opportunity to off him (and I mean late in the Reich, when Hitler’s evil is pretty clear and the war is going badly), nobody’d hold that against him, right?
I’m trying to remember how the dozens of Praetorians who offed Roman emperors were treated, and whether any of them were offing particularly bad emperors. (Also ignoring the particularly bad Praetorians, like the ones who would auction off the crown to the highest bidder.)
How do you not see it as a black mark on his record? The single defining attribute of his character is his resentment at the world hating and mocking him for being the Kingslayer. Most people in that world view oathbreaking as a crime above serving your oath to a mad king.
Sure, in our world, what he did was pretty reasonable. But it’s been shown about a thousand times that he has widespread disapproval and hatred in that world.
That’s how a lot of us see it, but would his contemporaries and the people keeping the records agree? On the whole, probably not. Westeros isn’t a modern society. And don’t forget Jaime had taken an oath to defend the king, which he broke in the most flagrant way possible. People seem to take that seriously.
Yes… different time, different society, I suppose. Still can’t help but feel he ought to be proud of himself and held up as a hero, but I can accept for purpose of the show that Westeros doesn’t work that way, and that oath to defend king >> delivering realm from mad, bad king.
While oathbreaking does seem to be one of the biggest wrongs you can commit in the public in Westeros, it’s also not quite so simple. They weren’t aware that the Mad King had placed wildfire around the city to burn it down. What they probably saw was that Tywin Lannister betrayed the (at the time) legitimate government by entering the city under promises of protection and then sacking it. And then his son breaks his sacred oath to murder the king. It looks opportunistic and dishonorable, especially if you didn’t see for yourself just how cruel the mad king was.
Taking your advice I googled “white savior” and did a little reading. It turns out I was already aware of this trope, and agree it’s offensive. (Same deal with the “magical negro” trope.)
I can spot them a mile away, because they’re really obvious. That Keanu Reeves or Tom Cruise (take your pick) movie where they become master samurai (or whatever) made me cringe within seconds of first seeing the trailers.
I just do not see the parallel in this episode. The “white savior” trope only applies to that scene in name; none of the trope fundamentals are present.
Dany doesn’t assimilate into their culture and then master their ways better than them. She isn’t teaching them to thrive in their environment. She makes no noble sacrifice. We do not see their story through her eyes.
I do not see the parallels, only the imagery, and only after having it pointed out. My personal opinion is that seeing the “white savior” trope in that scene is a projection. Earlier it was argued that it can’t be a personal projection if multiple people see the same thing. I argue that many people can put the same personal projection on something. I think that’s what happened here.
In one of the articles I read, a quick scan of the comments section had a nice gem that I think is relevant. That particular article was lamenting how 12 Years a Slave was yet another white savior movie, specifically the Brad Pitt character. I haven’t seen the movie so I have no opinion on that, but I did like this line from a commenter, which I think applies here:
The whole [tangent] seems to me to be an “offensive movie trope” fishing expedition.
Yeah, and I think everyone assumes that Jaime was in cahoots with his father and let him in. Which is why Brienne was fairly shocked when he said that he told the king that Tywin would betray him and not to let him in.
We tend to overestimate how much regular people in the show know. Nobody but a select few that were in direct contact with him knew how big a monster Joffrey was, not even a big important family like the Tyrells until they drew it out of Sansa. I imagine it was the same with the Mad King, the people directly in contact with him knew he was a monster while everyone else judged him by the estate the kingdom was in, which was peaceful and prosperous.
I think you’re right in general because the subjects will judge the monarchy based on the stuff they can see, not the stuff that goes on inside the castle walls. But the people who threw shit at Joffrey didn’t seem to like him very much, and the war threw the kingdom in general into disarray. That’s never good for the peasants.
Joffrey still has a poor reputation. At least what we saw him do in public, he tried to drown a knight for being drunk, and cut off a guy’s tongue for singing a silly song about King Robert. I think the rumor that he’s actually Jaime’s son is well known as well.
Makes you wonder how anyone survives winter, if food is scarce during harvest season. It seems like they basically face extinction every few years, but no one seems particularly worried about preparing for it.
Again, all of that was inside the castle walls. The average person wouldn’t know about it or give two shits.
I think I’m mixing the timeline up… but wasn’t Kingslanding starving because of Stannis’ blockade (he was blockading right?) and then the blockade would have been lifted after Blackwater with food just starting to trickle in thanks to the Tyrells.
Maybe in peaceful times the food from other lands flows more regularly—and winters are mostly peaceful out of necessity.
I wonder how severely winter affects south Westeros. King’s landing doesn’t seem to be built for winter with it’s large balconies, big open windows, and airy corridors. Winterfell, on the other hand, is cramped with tiny windows and thick doors. So maybe winters in the south amounts to a light drizzle and the occasional frosty night. But if the really fertile land is in the north a long winter will inevitably become a problem for the south.
Yes this bothers me too. Anyone over 30 survived the last winter, they know what it’s like but in the show no-one except the Starks is concerned about the coming of Winter. Strikes me as poor world building, in reality every adult in this world would take Winter very very seriously.
The nobles probably know they will get by fine, and we don’t get much of a common man perspective. The farmer the Hound and Arya stay with seemed pretty worried, but mostly about bandits who would be a much more immediate concern.