Game of Thrones 5.05 "Kill the Boy" 5/10/15 [Show Discussion]

Last night’s show just seemed repetitive. Jon and the wildlings, Sansa humiliated by Ramsey, Tyrion asking for wine, Aegon saying he is a Targaryen, Dany asking for advise, Ramsey and Miranda, Pod and Brienne talking about Sansa’s safety.

Add to this the scenes that did not make any sense, the missing boat, the stone men setting up an ambush in a place that no one ever goes, and Dany marrying a nobleman.

So it seems Westeros (err, or that whole world? What’s that called, by the way?) doesn’t just have one, but two functional zombie plagues—white walkers resp. wights, and stone men. What happens if a stone man touches a white walker? And then gets toasted with dragonfire?

Yeah, thinking about it, the whole story is really just an excuse to have zombies (which are currently a popular fad) in a fantasy setting.

Throw in some dragons because everyone likes dragons and you are guaranteed interest.

The only thing that is missing is a magic sword.

Pickled Herring S’mores?

You say that, but really the White Walkers are pretty damn ancillary to the plot, as is most magic. This is also true for the dragons, though to a much lesser degree. For what is clearly a fantasy setting, it’s actually refreshing how little magic and magical creatures figure in to the day to day plot.

The White Walkers and dragons are really more of a major, looming threat than anything else. It says a lot about this particular fantasy series that the magic and monsters are some of the least interesting aspects. The political skulduggery and interpersonal relationships are much more interesting, at least to me.

Not that either group is unimportant, just that they’re more lurking around the edges of the plot to kick it along from time to time (and probably incite a cataclysmic final act).

Oh come on, this series was started in the mid 90s.

Other than English, what are the other languages that are used in the show? I can’t seem to figure out what they are using for High Valyrion, Dothraki, etc.

I checked on this myself and found something very interesting, which I link to with the understanding that many of you may have already known this:

I agree that that scene was a bit confusing. But “a bit confusing” is very different from something that doesn’t make sense, or violates the rules that we have learned, or something of that sort. In this case, the most obvious thing that happened is that Jorah, seeing his golden ticket back into Dany’s graces falling into the water, jumped in after Tyrion, grabbed him, and then supported him in the water and they floated downstream until the stream emptied into a larger body of water, then they pulled up on a beach. I agree the show did a poor job of conveying any such geography, but it’s not like it’s a Plot Hole or something.

People obviously go there. For one thing, they go there to drop off people with grayscale, or at least that’s strongly implied, because that’s what people other than Stannis wanted to do with Shireen. Aside from that, we have no information one way or the other about whether adventurers or treasure-seekers or people-who-got-lost or people-looking-for-a-shortcut go through there. It’s not like it’s some unknown place where no one had been for thousands of years. We also don’t know enough about the society of stone men to know how out of their way they had to go to all get near the river like that. Maybe they just live in those very caves, because then they have a pre-made “ambush” any time an idiot on a boat comes along, which is maybe once a month. Or maybe there are tens of thousands of stone men and anywhere you go in Valyria you will end up surrounded. Again, we don’t have enough information. So, a bit odd, but not like it violates something we’ve already been told about the world.

What’s nonsensical about that? She’s unmarried, she’s powerful, dynastic marriages have been a tried and true part of wielding power both in the GoT world and ours for millenia.

I LOL’d at that. “Stannis is a grammar nazi!”

Yes! I think this was my favorite non-murder-related moment of the series.

Ramsey expertly induced a state of learned helplessness. Theon probably literally can’t believe that he could accomplish anything that was against Ramsey’s will at this point. Hopefully something will happen that shoves him out of that mindset soon, because it’ll be more interesting, but it seems believable that he is totally hopeless right now.

Theon still hasn’t told Ramsey what happened to the Stark sons, so something remains.

Pretty sure Theon actually did tell Ramsey that he killed random kids and passed them off as the Stark boys (Ramsey mentions it while Theon is shaving his face in front of Roose). That prompted Roose to send Locke to fake the Black so he could pursue and assassinate Bran and Rickon. And then he got Hodor’d.

The knowledge that the younger Stark brothers are still alive is:
A. Important tactical knowledge that Ramsey knew to keep to himself
B. Something that might make Sansa feel better, which Ramsey doesn’t give a shit about (and probably wants to avoid because he’s a sadistic asshole)

I think we are intended to recognize little flashes of Theon lurking in there somewhere. The scene where Ramsay instructs him to shave him (Ramsay) with a straight razor, there was definitely a second where slashing Ramsay’s throat occurred to Theon. He probably realized the brief second of satisfaction would have been followed even more hideous torture than what he had already experienced (unless he could also manage to off himself before being stopped.) There have also been moments when Theon seems to be listening very intently to conversations going on around him, as if he is hoping for information that may be of use.

I think I am starting to see how this story might end. Dany’s Dragons somehow help get rid of the White Walkers (most likely with Bran helping) , the Wall comes down in the battle but since the Wildlings are pacified and the White Walkers are all dead, Westeros doesn’t need it anymore and thus doesn’t need the Watchers on the Wall, freeing Jon Snow to take the name Stark and become King in the North.

Of course getting to my starting point is quite the leap.

You’re right. I forgot about that.

Well, given the laws of male inheritence, it suits the Boltons to not have the Stark kids known to be alive. Otherwise, Sansa wouldn’t be the the heir to the north…

BTW, Ramsay was clearly not happy to hear that his father’s wife was having a baby. Does a legitimate son threaten Ramsay’s inheritance rights?

And the story Roose told of the circumstances surrounding Ramsay’s conception makes it clear that Ramsay inherited his cruelty and insanity.

I think Ramsay has full inheritance rights as the older son, but there’s an implied threat of “I have another potential heir, so if you don’t make me happy, I’ll have you killed or send you to the wall or otherwise make sure you don’t inherit” - his position is certainly weaker than if Roose didn’t have another potential heir.

Somewhat – in that, as Ramsay said, Roose has another option to inherit. I think Ramsay would still be the legal heir, since he was legitimized, but he’d probably be looking over his shoulder.

I think perhaps the sociopathy – the total disregard and uncaring attitude for the suffering of others – is inherited, but I don’t get any sense from Roose that he has the same sense of glee and pleasure from torture and killing. Though apparently he enjoys the occasional rape.