No, it’s simpler than that. Either Robert has a recessive blond gene, or he doesn’t. If he does, then there’s a small chance (12.5%?) that all three children he has with a certain blond woman will be blond. The fact that he had dark-haired children with at least two other blonds doesn’t *necessarily *mean he doesn’t have a blond gene, but it’s indicative, and when you consider the low probability mentioned above, it seems pretty likely. It’s not proof per se, but if it something like that happened today, you can bet he’d be running some paternity tests.
Granted, the history stuff is irrelevant - the fact that his ancestors probably didn’t have any blond genes doesn’t mean anything about Robert, especially as they had more than enough chances to insert some in the family gene pool. But Ned doesn’t know that, and it set his mind in the right direction.
Too late to get in on the main discussion (been out of town and no time to post lately), but I thought it was one of the best episodes so far. It’s very close to the story in the book (I actually bought the whole series to date from Audible.com and am following along with the audio book and the series).
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke]
It’s not “dark haired families”–it’s apparently the Baratheons. The Starks are mostly dark haired but Sansa has red hair. She probably takes after her mother, who has dark reddish hair.
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Exactly. When Ned goes back through the book of the great families he sees in every single case that the Baratheon’s ALWAYS have black hair. And then when he starts looking into the various Robert bastards they all have black hair too…even from the blond prostitute who only wants Robert to see her beautiful daughter. In every case the children have black hair…except those of the supposed royal family.
I have to say again that this was a great episode. I actually liked the fight scene where the King Slayer and his men ambush Ned and his men at arms better than in the book…it was much more heroic than in the story. The trial by combat was a bit less heroic and meaty than the story, but still well done (someone asked upthread why Cat just let him go after that…it makes a lot less sense in the series than it did in the book and I’ll just say that she had an internal change of heart about the Imp. In the context of the series, recall that he saved her life on the road to the castle). The characters really came alive to me in this latest episode, and overall the whole thing has been great…it just pops!
For those of you with a favorite character in the series, just remember…Winter is Coming…
That was mentioned again and again and again. The dark hair is what all that strong seed was about.
Cersei did have a child with Robert. She talks about him to Cate when she visits Bran’s sick bed. Her dark-haired son who seemed so strong but allavasuddenly-- poof, he dies of fever. Gah, I cannot stand that brotherfucking biatch!
To illustrate with numbers… suppose Jon Arryn and/or Ned tracked down 10 of Robert’s bastards, all with blonde-haired mothers, all with black hair. (This number is made up for illustration, and not a spoiler from the books or anything)
IF Robert has a recessive blonde gene, the chances of him fathering 10 dark haired children with blonde mothers is the same as flipping a coin 10 times and getting 10 heads: 1/1024 =~0.098%. IF he doesn’t have the recessive gene, the chance is 100%.
If he does have the recessive gene, the chance of him fathering 13 children with blonde mothers and 10 of them be dark haired, 3 blonde haired is 286/1024=~30%. Not too shabby. But if that were the case, the chances of the 3 blondes being the 3 from the same mother would be 1/286=~3.5%.
The fact that his father is dark haired already cuts down the possibility that he has the recessive gene by 25%. Of course, his mother matters too. If she’s blonde, he definitely has the gene.
(apologies in advance for any math errors, but I think I’m at least close)
So none of it is 100% proof, but if the number of bastards is high enough, it’s about as good as proof gets in this technology level.
Looks strange, doesn’t it? Bear in mind, that one panel rarely says it all; if you look at the left and right picture as a motion, you’ll see that he has swung the sword around in a circle without giving any ground.
It’s a move that deflects the other sword to the side and forces the opponent to lean or step back because of the close proximity of the sword’s point to easily cut body parts.
Btw, if the sword fighters had the chance to step on the blade or shove the opponent or switch to wrestling when they were too close, they would do so in an instance - if we follow the manuals.
My take on honour: I am not even sure what definition(s) of honour are used in Martin’s world but it looks to me as if he had enough interest in detail here to add more than one and they vary with location and milieu.
The sellsword Bronn might have broken the rules of courtly or poetically defined honour in the Vale but why should he care as long as he didn’t break the rules of the ritual he was engaged in? The only thing he absolutely had to do, was honour the rules of the engagement. He didn’t complicate matters more than necessary, and so he had an advantage from the start.
Imo, this is one of the criteria that tell the winner apart from the loser in Westeros.
I don’t c are about the series as much as the books. I want the BOOKS to be completed. The series will then follow…or not…as money dictates. Without the books…well, the series is done, anyhoo.
I am surprised the entire book series is being considered for film production, when the written form isn’t completed. They may not make it past the second season, much less to an as yet unwritten 7th book. (I think 7 should do it; maybe 9? Who the hell knows!)
Sounds like Martin’s blowing smoke.
Someone mentioned upthread…or maybe the other thread…that it was obvious that Bronn didn’t even throw in for Tyrion until the opponent was declared, and it was clear that Bronn could beat him. Which makes sense for a merc…and, if that is a given, then it’s clear the opponent wasn’t known for great fighting in the first place. I’m sure Bronn’s not bad, but to wager your whole life on something, well…it’d better be a pretty sure thing. So it sounds like the knight was pretty crappy to begin with, or at least well out of practice.
p.s. I’m curious as to why, in the show, everyone’s assuming that the blonde father of Cercei’s kids is automatically her brother. She’s the queen, surrounded by plenty of cute blonde guys; was there some other reveal, to the public, about her brother? I don’t see how anyone could automatically assume Jaime had anything to do with it, except for Bran’s first-hand-but-forgotten proof.
Because in the first episode they were shown fucking. And then he threw Bran off the tower.
Also, in another scene, Jaime declares his undying love for his sister as he feels her up, “I’ll kill the whole world until there is only you and I left!” or some such nastiness.
[QUOTE=Taomist]
p.s. I’m curious as to why, in the show, everyone’s assuming that the blonde father of Cercei’s kids is automatically her brother. She’s the queen, surrounded by plenty of cute blonde guys; was there some other reveal, to the public, about her brother? I don’t see how anyone could automatically assume Jaime had anything to do with it, except for Bran’s first-hand-but-forgotten proof.
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Because Bran saw them doinking, and the implication is that this wasn’t the first time. As one of the Kings Guard, Jamie would be around to see if Cercei was taking any of the other ‘cute blonde guys’ up on their offer.
Just looking at the series alone and without any outside knowledge, it’s a logical conclusion, since that’s all the information available on the matter.
He wasn’t crappy or out of practice…he was over armored for that kind of fight. He was wearing heavy plate, with a large heavy shield and a large heavy sword suited to fighting other guys in plate armor (preferably on horseback). In the show, Bronn turns down the use of a heavy ass shield, is shown in light leather armor, and is using a much lighter hand and a half sword…and in that sort of fight that would be the better choice. Put them on horseback and it would be a different story. Basically, Bronn get’s the knight to swing (and miss) until the guy is pretty much exhausted and has slowed down, then he cuts him several times to further drain him before finally hamstringing him and then finishing him off.
[QUOTE=msmith537]
No, I think he means why would the characters assume it was Jaime’s kid. I don’t think they are so much as they no it’s not some dark haired kings.
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I don’t think that anyone yet in the series has made the connection that it’s Jamies kid, since of all the main characters only the Queen, King Slayer (possibly Tyrion) and Bran ACTUALLY know that Cercei and Jamie are romantically involved in a biblical sort of way. Ned et al just suspect that whoever the father is, it wasn’t Robert.
I know the OP didn’t want to discuss the book at all, but just wanted to say that I don’t recall if anyone every ACTUALLY finds out that Jamie is for sure the father…IIRC, it’s more a matter of simply wanting to discredit the Queen and her royal brood in the basest way possible.
Umm, there’s rather such a thing as “over armored” as you see what Hollywood rarely shows is the blows getting turned by all that armor. And, a shield is a huge advantage. The dancing guy with the light armor would get tired first, from having his blows bounce off. Not to mention, there’s no reason for the heavy armored knight to chase the light guy. Just lean on your sword and watch him dance.
Why is everyone in the REALM assuming blonde=Jaimie’s, just because it’s not Robert’s? I can see assuming not Robert’s; I don’t see where Jaimie comes in. That’s a huge assumption that nobody would make without some really good reason. And in the show, we haven’t seen the reason…rather, the REALM hasn’t.
I don’t think anyone in the show has made that connection. Well, we don’t know how much Jon Arryn figured out before he died. But all Ned suspects so far is that Robert isn’t the father of his queen’s children.
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Umm, there’s rather such a thing as “over armored” as you see what Hollywood rarely shows is the blows getting turned by all that armor. And, a shield is a huge advantage. The dancing guy with the light armor would get tired first, from having his blows bounce off. Not to mention, there’s no reason for the heavy armored knight to chase the light guy. Just lean on your sword and watch him dance.
[/QUOTE]
Why would the leather or light armored guy dance if the guy in plate is just standing there?? As for over armored, while it’s true the armor would turn a blade, if you are wearing 70 lbs of armor (or more) it’s going to tire you out, especially if you have a big ass sword and big ass shield strapped to your arm. True, in the show the fight didn’t go on long enough to really wear out a guy in decent shape, but the implication is that we weren’t seeing every blow and that this was the tactic Bronn used.
The other thing is, when wearing plate like that your vision is very limited. Shield and sword tactics further limit your vision since you hold the shield just under your eye slits. I’ve actually worn European plate (replica) armor at RFs in the past, and while it’s not as hard to move as they sometimes portray in Hollywood, it would still wear you out to try and swing at some guy who is able to move without all the encumbrance (I saw a guy who could do a back flip in such armor, but he couldn’t do a bunch of them in a row, despite being in top physical condition). On foot and given two guys of similar ability I’d say that in a drawn out fight the guy with less encumbrance and weight is going to have an advantage, especially if he can get around behind the guy with all the armor on. While in D and D and in Hollywood it LOOKS like armored knights are like little mini-tanks that would shed blows, the reality is that there are a lot of unarmored places to strike, since that sort of armor is meant to be worn from horseback, and the horse protects the parts that aren’t armored as much. Also, since you have to actually move in the stuff it needs joints that would be less protected than the plate parts.
Ned et al just suspect that whoever the father is, it wasn’t Robert.