game of thrones redo season 8 change.org petition

Sorry. I think it was some guy named J J who was a producer on Lost but now is reduced to teaching high school English (and not even the AP course).

Again, in case anyone missed it, the only “some guy” listed as a producer on IMDb with those initials is J.J. Abrams, who currently has at least 13 projects announced or in pre-production. I think he’s too busy to be teaching high school English on the side.:wink:

So perhaps the guys responsible for the (so far) disappointing ending of Game of Thrones might be able to get hired in Hollywood.

Seriously, though, this was a hugely popular show and at the same time a really complex one to write and produce. At times, there were up to fifty characters we had to follow as viewers. There was no certainty that it would be as successful as it was, no matter how disappointed you might be with the ending (and part of the disappointment is that expectations are so overblown that nothing could possibly be acceptable) they’ve still achieved a major, major hit and their futures are assured.

The showrunners have said that they regard this season and the previous one as a single 13-episode season, so that also has to be taken into account. Of course, the two year gap in the middle makes it impossible to appreciate it as a single season right now.

Considering the complaints about the first two episodes, I don’t think fans would be pleased by the addition of more episodes where “nothing happens.” Everyone is eager for character arcs to be resolved, so they wouldn’t tolerate even more delay.

I think one place where an additional episode could have been added is between the Army of the Dead breaching the Wall and reaching Winterfell. As it was, there was no sense of increasing dread as the Army approached. They could have tried to use varying delaying tactics, all of which failed, causing increasing hopelessness before the final attack. Of course, they made the Army so invincible that the only way to defeat it was to take out the Night King. But if some of the tactics had cut down its size and made the battle more even, it could have increased the tension a bit.

First: this petition is very stupid, no one is entitled to enjoy a TV series, anyone who signed it needs a hobby very badly. That said, this:

…is frustrating. I’ve been very disappointed with how the show has panned out, both this season and last. And, as I said in another thread, if you’ve enjoyed it, that’s cool and I wouldn’t take it away from you if I could. But it does seem like people who have liked the show feel the need to dismiss or belittle the people who have not, and that’s… less cool.

So one last time, for the record: no, none of things in your quote are what I expected or wanted. What I wanted was for the inevitable conflicts among the characters to be interesting and complex.

For me, the best of this show was the War of the Five Kings. Here you had a conflict with five sides, and you could honestly say that every one of them kind of had a point. You’ve got a young man fighting for vengeance for a murdered father. You’ve got a guy who’d probably make the best actual king. You’ve got an entire society fighting for its independence. You’ve got another guy who actually has the best legal argument to be king, and who has been convinced that he is literally ordained by god to save the entire world. And then you have the Lannisters, who are actually the ones being attacked and know that if they lose, they will all die. And then, of course, there was a sixth side across the sea - this claimant who blended compassion with brutality in ways that never felt forced. Who were you supposed to root for there? The answer changed every episode, sometimes several times in the course of a single episode. And in that context, every single character on the show was affected - loyalties shifted and were tested. It was interesting!

But in the last few years, the show has moved away from that kind of conflict. First they gave us Ramsay Bolton, who was an incredibly well-acted character but had all the complexity of Snidely Whiplash. When he faced off against Jon Snow, there were no grays; it was an obvious Saturday Morning Cartoon battle of good versus evil.

Then they put Cersei on the Iron Throne and forgot about her, leaving Lena Headey - arguably the best actor on the show - to basically milk one facial expression for two seasons. The way she got there was great; the mass murder at the Sept was a totally believable culmination of an arc that had lasted many seasons.* But then… nothing. So by the time Dany and her army showed up, they had removed any sense of complexity. Cersei was a tyrant and a bad ruler, she had no good qualities, so it was easy to root for Dany.

Then they brought in the Night King, who was unambiguously EEEEVIL so again, no nuance to the conflict.

And now Ramsey, Cersei, and the Night King are gone. The stage is set for the final conflict. But instead of giving us a final conflict with multiple sides all of whom kind of have a point, they turned Dany into a psychotic killer so that the final conflict can be easy and simple: white hats (Jon, Tyrion, Sansa, Arya) vs. black hats (Dany and I guess Grey Worm?).

And I think that’s dull, and it disappoints me.


  • Just a quick contrast between Cersei’s Breaking Bad moment with the Sept and Dany’s far less earned moment in the last episode. Cersei killed innocents because it was the only way to destroy her enemies and save her own life. What she did was wrong and horrible. What she did not do, though, was detonate a bunch of random Wildfire caches right after the Sept just because fuck you, that’s why. Had she done that, it would have been silly and not believable - and Cersei is not a character who has been shown to have even an ounce of compassion. Dany, who has shown compassion, committed an act many orders of magnitude worse than what Cersei, a measurably worse person throughout the show, did in self-defense.

Whatever faults with the last season of the show lie mostly in choices made a long time ago. As I said in the original thread, there are certainly things the writers could have done to improve the way they showed the story, but the basic plot has been determined since the 90s when GRRM thought it up. You could remove all the stupid shots of various main characters being completely overwhelmed by the dead in episode 3, specially Sam who spent at least half the episode on the ground covered in zombies. You could add an emotional goodbye scene between Jon and Ghost. You could have Rhaegal fall in actual battle against Euron’s fleet, maybe as a result of the previous injuries he took in the last battle. None of those things are plot related, they are just bad writing which is the main complaint most people have.

According to Jamie the writers have not given a fuck since like Season 4. Sorry can’t like a reddit video outside reddit.

Well, since the show started, Martin has published The Princess and the Queen, The Rogue Prince, and The Sons of the Dragon, three prequel novellas; The World of Ice & Fire, an illustrated history of Westeros; and Fire & Blood, a 700-page history of House Targaryan.

IOW, Martin has written about a million words of Game of Thrones fan fiction in lieu of the books. I can understand why. Those are his and his alone. His prized world lays in tatters at the hands of others, whose visions and treatment are the only things that virtually all of humanity will ever know or remember.

Really, why would Martin even want to finish the series? It’s a losing proposition.

But the show has aired since 2011 and was underway for probably a year or so before then. So he’s had most of a decade to finish the series on his own terms if he wanted to. No one was stopping him. And from everything I’ve heard, he told them how he intended the story to proceed. So as far as I know, this is still his story.

That makes sense to me in that my main complaint is how the instant travel undermines the very world-building that made the earlier seasons so great, and that started in the very beginning of season 7.

I also agree with critics about many of the little things they did wrong, but those don’t really bother me. Dany’s turn could have been better handled but I’m happy that it happened and when it happened so I don’t really quibble with the particulars. The loss of the second dragon was bungled but I don’t mind that a dragon had to die that episode; I only quibble with the mechanics of how it went down, which were just plain stupid. But again, since I’m on board with the story points, I can forgive them fucking up the details.

I agree with you about the lack of increasing dread, but didn’t we see them breach the wall in 7.7 and then not arrive at Winterfell until 8.3? I don’t think a third episode of everyone gathering the night before the battle would have helped all that much.

Yes, but we didn’t actually see the Army of the Dead between those episodes. We saw the aftermath of them overwhelming the Last Hearth, but nothing else. We had eight seasons of buildup, and then the threat was confronted and destroyed in a single night.

I’m absolutely not saying there should have been more than two episodes of set up at Winterfell. That was plenty, and probably too much. What I’m saying is that there might have been an episode, or at least some scenes, of some attempts to reduce their numbers that were partially successful, such as knocking out one or more of the lesser White Walkers and his wights, but failed to stop the main advance.

Much of the last two seasons has involved knocking down Dany’s overwhelming advantages against Cersei so there is some tension about who would win a showdown, by eliminating most of her allies last season, taking out two of her dragons, and reducing her forces at the Battle of Winterfell.

The same thing might have been done with the Night King to make it more of a contest. Once of the problems with The Long Night was that the Army of the Dead was so invincible that it quickly became apparent that the only possible way for the good guys to win would be to take out the Night King, so after that the only thing was to wait to see exactly how that would happen.

Yeah, agreed. That might have been a good use for the Dothraki.

That’s dumb, IMO. First of all it’s empty whining because everybody knows they’re not going to do it. Even the person that made the petition. Second, I think the complaints about this season are extremely overblown. Yeah, there’s been some dumb stuff, but I can’t say I haven’t been entertained. Just IMO.

Cersei lied and broke her promise to send troops to the north and basically abandoned humanity’s fight for survival in a selfish move to retain power as queen. I think THAT is “many magnitudes worse” than frying a single city with a dragon, but that’s just the humble opinion of a single viewer.

Daenerys always demonstrated to me that she was on a single unwavering mission to be the supreme ruler, and that she wasn’t going to allow anything to stop her. Sure, she liked to think of herself and present herself as a compassionate and evolved ruler but, in the end, her ruthless determination came to the fore.

This is a really good illustration of the problem. JJ Abrams seriously muffed Lost. He turned Star Trek into “Michael Bay does sci-fi”. He dumbed down Star Wars. But what do all of those products (term chosen for a reason) have in common? They made a shit-load of money for the studios. JJ (and Michael Bay, and now D&D, and a bunch of other examples) bring the glitz that will get lots of people watching, but the art suffers for it.

Which is why I don’t necessarily think the petition is worthless, though it is a pipedream. I don’t see people advocating for art and substance over glitz as a bad thing. I certainly don’t know a better way to bring it to their attention considering just about no one is going to stop watching now, which is the only measure of success they will otherwise care about.

Specially since we live in the era of remakes. There’s a realistic chance that someone will try to make a movie franchise, or an animated series or anything else with GOT before GRRM is even done with the last book.

It’s really hard to top the “Release the secret edit of Justice League” petition.

Except HBO almost certainly has the rights to Game of Thrones so they’re the only ones who can make a movie franchise, animated series or anything else.

It didn’t show because the high water mark of the show was the last episode of season 6. The series needed to either stay the same quality or get better from then on. We waited a few months longer than normal for a lesser quality season 7 which was three episodes shorter and an extra year for an even worse quality final season that was four episodes shorter. The fans deserved better and the petition is fully justified.

Just give a couple years for our overlords, the Disney Megacorp ™ to absorb them.