Game of Thrones Season 2 - OPEN SPOILERS Discussion Thread

Riverrun and Edmure don’t really play a big part until book 3, introducing them early would just be pointlessly costly when they are already trying to trim the budget as much as possible.

Didn’t they spare Edmure at the Red Wedding so he could produce a legitimate heir to Riverrun? Or was there some other reason?

I should really re-read the books.

He’s alive, but I don’t think they gave a reason. Littlefinger is lord of the Riverlands though, and I can’t imagine the Tully’s would get to keep Riverrun, so producing an heir is kind of moot.

Littlefinger is lord of the vale, not the riverlands. He is lord of Harrenhal, which does not entitle him to rule the riverlands. Edmure was kept alive to sire a heir, and he becomes unnecessary after that, Jamie did him a kindness in taking him hostage because the Freys would just dispose of him the moment his wife gave birth to a son.

No, he’s lord of the Riverlands. He’s awarded it for bringing the Tyrells over to the Lannister side. Looking back on it, he’s kept alive so that they can threaten Brynden Tully/Riverrun with his death.

The slaughter happened during the bedding, so it’s partly that he was away. But Walder Frey lives to gain influence through marriage, so I think that was his main motivation. Name dropping.

Right. Walders whole plan in life is to conquer Westeros for his own line through his testes.

Yeah, they could have just killed him. I doubt Frey would have let a little thing like a bedding stop him from murder if he really wanted to. It did feel like they spared him deliberately.

If they do replace Edmure with Catelyn for the Red Wedding, it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Is Frey going to marry her and kill her all in the same night? I guess that wouldn’t be completely out of character for him.

That would be a pretty big spoiler for the future books, as it would mean Edmure never sired an heir.

I never found it that baffling - Arya’s a sharp kid, but she’s still a kid (and a severely traumatized one, at that). She makes mistakes - I can forgive her lacking the savvy to kill precisely the right people. Poor kiddo.

I’ve said it before, but one of the things I like about Arya’s character in the books is that she was clearly written with something akin to love - particularly in the first book. This is just a great, fun kid - the audience is meant to like her, and I’d bet good money George Martin does, too. And then all these horrible, horrible things happen to her. Heartbreaking.

In the books she does realize, just too late, that she should have had him kill Tywin. It seems to be an important spot of character development for her given the future training she’ll receive.

So, I haven’t been watching this season yet (waiting for the DVD release), but… they changed Asha’s name to Yara? I guess I can understand why (confusion with wildling Osha) and I suppose it’s not that bad but… I dunno, just seems weird. She’s a POV character for crying out loud!

Hmm. I hope Catelyn gets the news of Bran and Rickons “deaths” before Jaime is released, but that timing doesn’t seem right with how this episode was set up. I’m not sure I feel about Jaimie killing Alton/Cleos. Seems like a character change to me.

Dany’s storyline continued to diverge quite a bit, but I don’t care about her and am not very bothered by it.

I wonder how they’re going to manage to have Jon kill Qhorin and have it be honorable.

Jamie killing his own cousin is extremely out of character. And for what? he just didn’t trust his acting skills? I too hope Catelyn finds out about Bran and Rickon before freeing Jamie, she is supposed to be desperate and broken not freeing him just to protect him.

Is that how Jaime loses his hand? I’ve forgotten. Cat cuts off his hand and lets him go? With Brienne?

Jaime’s escape attempt wasn’t in the book, was it? Could it be viewed as suicidal? He had no hope of getting away. If he truly believes all he’s good for is killing, maybe he wants someone to put him out of his misery, and killing a guard is a good start. Or he just couldn’t stand being a prisoner any longer, and if the attempt failed, he’s still too valuable to kill.

I wonder if Arya feels any guilt or responsibility for all those hangings.

“Have you ever known any stonemasons?” :smiley: Does Tywin still think both the Stark girls are at King’s Landing? Cersei and Tyrion are afraid to tell him Arya is gone?

Sweet moment with Cersei and Tyrion, but I’m glad Tyrion restrained himself. For a second, I thought he was going to pat her hand or something. She would have bitten it off.

Again, the scenes with Robb and Alisa (?) and Jon and Ygritte slowed things down.

Loved the Godfather-like scene in Qarth but again, that wasn’t in the book, was it?

Jamie did try to escape in the books, it’s how he earned a cell in riverrun instead of the nice room he had for being an important lord. It is mentioned in passing only, like everything else relating to Jamie in the second book. Tyrion also orchestrated yet a second escape attempt when he sent Cleos Frey back, Alton in the show. He loses his hand much later when he is captured by the Brave Companions/Bloody Mummers. None of the Qarth stuff is from the book.

Can anyone help me understand the final scene?

I got the impression that Theon murdered one or both of the Stark boys.

But I’ve never seen a dead body look like that before.

Are we to get the impression they were flailed to death? Or was that body black because it was burned to death?

Does anyone think that both of the Stark boys were killed? Or only one?

Theon sure does seem to have a whole lot of hurt coming his way now. I think the author decided to have one character who would be subjected to every kind of torture the author could imagine and Theon is the lucky S.O.B. who will be on the receiving end.

I got some info about Theon’s future from Westeros.org and I won’t say anything more about that except that if anyone is interested in what happens to Theon, you can go there and check it out.

It ain’t pretty. He is subjected to more hideous torture than anyone else in the author’s imagination. And that is sure saying something.

Catelyn, Jaime and Brienne all leave (with Catelyn having snuck him out to trade him for her daughters). They get caught by Vargo Hoat and he’s the one who cuts off Jaime’s hand.

I haven’t read the books but everyone is meant to believe Theon killed both Stark boys and burnied the bodies. But considering no one else, including the audience sees him do it and it doesn’t explain what happened to Osha, Baby Huey and the dire wolves, I have to assume Theon just killed the two orphen boys who were sent to that village a few episodes back and burned the bodies so they couldn’t be recognized.

Excellent analysis.