I was disappointed by Jamie’s speech to Edmure. Neither his discussion of Cersei and Cat and how much they loved their kids or how much he loves Cersei had anything to do with anything, it just felt very disjointed without really having any kind of point other than “oh btw go open the gates or fuck you”.
Funny, I had the exact opposite reaction, I thought he broke through to Edmure by putting it in terms he could understand even though Edmure didn’t want to listen. Jaime compares Cersei to Cat based on their willingness to go to war and ruthlessly destroy their enemies in order to protect their children. Then Jaime says that he shares this same destructive quality, only its driven by being with Cersei. And the destruction he will cause will fall on House Tully, beginning with Edmure’s son and ending with, well, the end of House Tully. Like Jaime said to the Frey chump, don’t make threats you’re not willing to carry out; it’s perfectly clear to Edmure that Jaime will have no problem carrying this one out.
Interestingly, it’s a move that his father would have made, we don’t usually say that about Jaime.
Eh, it’s unclear to me. Perhaps he knows what a shit show King’s Landing is. There’s a decent chance that the Lannisters aren’t in power in 2 years. Everyone hates the Freys. Lots can change in 2 years.
It’s not like there’s much of a house left. They still lose Riverrun and their legacy is demolished. Edmure will live his life in captivity. If the goal is to preserve the Tully house, and those of their bannermen, you can’t surrender. If the goal is to have the greatest amount of men life to old age, then surrender is probably the way to go.
I mean, it just changes it to “Arya baited the waif, fucked up in a really inexplicably stupid way once, then just got lucky over and over again, acted like a superhero even with a mortal wound, and the waif acted like the worst assassin ever”
There’s no salvaging anything but eye-rolling terribleness from that whole mess.
No, it’s Arya got sloppy, nearly got killed and barely got away. No baiting.
I thought the way he did it in the books is far more Tywin like. He doesn’t do it by declaring his love for Cersei (isn’t that supposed to be something you’d want to keep under wraps?), but by telling him how Lannisters deal with rebels and then gets someone to play the Rains of Castamere.
IIRC, doesn’t he receive a letter from Cersei pleaing for help and ignore it? In the books, he’s realized Cersei has been manipulating him as she does everyone else, and he rejects it. In the show he’s given up all that development and is back to “anything for Cersei!”
The bannermen are already gone. The vast majority of pledged themselves to the crown (and to the Freys who are now the Lords Paramount of the Riverlands). All that were left were Tully soldiers. If you survive you have a shot of doing something in the future. If you are all dead and your castle burned to the ground and salted, then you are just part of a song.
Yep. I think he realizes that his love for Cersei and his “do anything for you” type of mentality has made him into a person he doesn’t like. Now, granted, becoming more Tywin-like doesn’t necessarily a good person make, but at least he’s in charge of his own destiny that way.
Yes, his book character is far more sympathetic at this point, growing and moving forward, while show Jaime keeps sliding back to where he started.
Why would the Lannisters destroy the Frey castle?
If you surrender, the Tully house is done. If you don’t, then there’s a chance, however slight, of not being done.
Depends on how you weigh honor and legacy vs your life.
For the individual soldiers, there’s no house name or castle either way, so yeah, they should prefer surrender. Unless, maybe, you’re some sort of minor lord that could be forced to go to the wall.
Exactly. This is the actual quote:
That’s SO much better than what we got.
To make an example of them. Why raise the castle of Castamere, when the castle would have belonged to the Lannisters after the Reynes were slaughtered.
And it isn’t a Frey castle. It’s a Tully castle, who are the bannermen of the Freys. It’s as much of a Frey castle as Karhold is a Stark castle.
No, it’s 100% a Frey castle. It was given to them for their cooperation.
Oh sorry, you are right. It was given to Emmon Frey.
But, the Freys are powerless next to the Lannisters.
No problem.
Pretty bad optics to raze a castle that you promised to someone to do your dirty work. Makes future alliances difficult. If it was still a Tully house I agree they might do it. Still an expensive.piece of strategic property to destroy though.
Plus the Lannister power is waning.
Thanks for posting that, it’s been soooo long since I read FFC which does have many moments of incredible brilliance despite all the complaints about its length and rambling plot lines.
Considering the people you promised the castle to can’t even take it over properly, I doubt it. Of course helping to orchestrate the Red Wedding may make it even more difficult to make future alliances, but in the might makes right world that doesn’t particularly matter.
The Frey’s entire position is owed to the Lannisters. If the Lannisters fall, there is no particular reason that the Tyrells will care about the bargains struck between the Freys, the Boltons, and the Lannisters. Therefore the Freys are tied even more to the Lannisters. Especially in a world where the Lord Paramount can shift on a dime according to what the crown desires.
I am hoping very hard that they’ve casted a part for Wyman Manderly in this episode. They’ve mentioned the Manderleys a few times, and I am rooting for some sort of The North Remembers surprise so hard here.
I would greatly prefer a The North Remembers surprise than a handy Knights of the Vale at the last minute. Maybe we’ll get both.
I don’t think they did, though apparently whichever son died did appear at the RW. Rumors are that another character takes his place, which if true I don’t like as much but it’s okay.