Gender, race, and other issues (split off from Doper Demographics thread)

About This Message Board
101

What topics, that you claim are restricted here, would you like to talk about?

102

Hey you guys, just in case it’s not screamingly obvious by now, I’m not taking the bait. I’m not going to mention any specific topics that will open me up to dogpiling.

103

I mean, personally, I can see how core principles of equity and rationality are acting as a baseline for discourse in ways that some could characterize as “secular religion”. Discourse that tends to get immediately rejected for violating those principles includes

  • Claims that members of a particular race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, religious denomination, ethnicity, nationality, economic underclass, etc. are innately inferior or mentally ill;

  • Claims that discrimination and bigotry against historically marginalized groups no longer exists, or that it doesn’t count unless it’s conscious and deliberate;

  • Sexualizing jokes in a non-sexual discussion of issues involving women, or just generally jokes introducing bigoted stereotypes in discussions involving historically marginalized groups;

  • Jokes suggesting approval of, or callous indifference to, the sexualization or sexual abuse of children;

  • Rejection of solidly established scientific/factual consensus in favor of pseudoscientific and pseudofactual beliefs about, e.g., the flatness of the earth or the faking of the moon landings or the dangers of vaccines;

and a whole host of similar claims. Yeah, it’s pretty much true that the SDMB as a body doesn’t want to hear any of that shit.

Personally, I’m fine with having one place on the internet where core principles of equity and rationality are treated as a baseline for discussion. I wouldn’t want the First Amendment to the Constitution rewritten to prohibit all discourse that violates those principles, but I have no problem with an individual internet forum or other private institution having more restrictions on speech than the Constitution does.

I’ve been here on the Dope for over twenty years and I can remember when a lot more threads were dominated by crypto-bigots (and sometimes not so crypto) claiming they just wanted a serious discussion of their racist or sexist or homophobic or whatever views. I don’t really think they added much value to the board, and I think the fun that a lot of posters got from debating them was outweighed by the alienation felt by other posters who were among the targets of their bigotry.

If anybody wants to describe those principles as a “secular religion” (whatever that even means), okay, you do you. There are lots of places you can go on the internet (or in real life) where you don’t have to conform to those principles if you don’t want to.

104

Can an elephant in the room constitute “bait”?

105

So you reserve the right to make vague accusations without having to clarify them? If you can’t state your problem clearly and concisely, I’m just going to have to assume that it isn’t important enough to talk about.

106

But if you don’t allow all that stuff here on the SDMB where, oh where, will people have access to it? :thinking:

107

…you know that YWTF is topic banned and is unable to answer this question.

The guidelines for transgender issues is here:

I think that these are all reasonable guidelines, and support this 100%. If these guidelines means that some people here feel unwelcome here, that is unfortunate, but unavoidable.

108

Are there any other issues, other than the one you are topic-banned on, that you think should be discussed on the SDMB?

109

I have made my point clear about the tenor on this board.

You and others are also making it clear what this tenor actually looks like. It’s ugly and boring. Only a pathetic handful of nobodies gets any pleasure reading it.

110

Surely there must be a limited exemption that the bannee is allowed to discuss the ban itself in ATMB?

111

Rules really aren’t your strong point, are they?

112

I would like to read about specific problems and their possible solutions.

113

I wouldn’t be shocked to discover that you don’t like the castrati on this board either.

114

…that would be a question better directed to the moderators here, not me. I’m sure that would probably be allowed in its own dedicated thread, but I doubt it would be in a generic thread like this. But that obviously isn’t my call.

115

Honestly, I tend to think it was considerably more “ugly and boring” back when we had actual debate threads on “issues” like

Or wanting to debate the so-called “Global Warming Fraud”.
Or arguing with zero moderation pushback that

Or asking

Or opinion threads expecting serious discussion of questions like

Part of what has “hardened the baseline”, so to speak, is the fact that the pernicious bigotry and willful ignorance underlying a lot of those attitudes has now become more generally apparent. At least in this one small enclave of the internet, over the decades, to some extent, some ignorance actually got fought.

I’m not going to bemoan that for reducing “diversity of opinion” around here. Yes, it’s true that being more welcoming to a lot more varieties of stupidity and bigotry encouraged more diversity of opinion in that regard. Like I said, I don’t think that was a net win for the board.

Hmm, then that implies that there must be thousands of masochists reading the SDMB without getting any pleasure from it.

Someone should tell them that if they’re really not enjoying it they’re allowed to leave, honest!

116

Is it the claim that conservatives have been forced off the board even though they haven’t broken the agreed-upon rules, or is it the claim that the rules shouldn’t apply to them because of…reasons?

117

Let’s say you had inherited a seedy dive bar always full of people getting into fistfights, vomiting in the main room, and casually vandalizing things.

You hire some security guys, kick out the troublemakers, and it starts becoming more sane and calm, clean, and welcoming. You spruce up the decor and enjoy owning a respectable establishment.

If someone accuses you of being intolerant and unwelcoming, and they miss how it used to be, would you be ashamed?

118

In a town with an almost infinite amount of seedy bars, many of which are much, much seedier than mine used to be? Not even a little bit.

119

I think everything your said is also true of right wing communities, and is at least as true of “the real world” as of message boards and their ilk. I think this represents a polarization of our society.

Well, I’m sure I’m not the only one who wonders if you feel silenced on many issues, or just on trans issues. But i understand not wanting to start a pig pile.

Speaking as a mod, I’m not sure we’ve discussed it. But i know that ATMB threads about that sort of topic often devolve into relitigating the subject of the ban, and can tempt posters to cross the line.

So i think YWTF is being quite reasonable in not addressing her topic ban directly. If there are unrelated topics where she feels discussion is being squealched, however, (like Biden’s unpopularity in any particular demographic) it could be constructive to bring those up.

120

I’m really curious expressing exactly what opinions on Biden’s popularity would result in,

'Cause I’m not seeing what rule that could conceivably violate. Other than the obvious thing which I, at least, ain’t really comfortable assuming is what’s being alluded to.