So remove the transgender discussions. What else is the problem? I honestly don’t see what you’re seeing, but I’d like to try and understand.
The idea that the boards are an echo chamber is as foolish now as it’s been the fifteen billion other times it’s been advanced over the last two decades. Looking in Great Debates, we see:
-Debate over what a sustainable existence looks like for an individual (getting at issues of personal vs. systemic responsibility in environmental matters)
-Debate over the proper role of free speech on college campuses
-Debate over liberal vs. conservative conception of human nature
-Debate over the wisdom of student loan forgiveness
-The veganism debate
-Debate over the intersection of capitalism and health care
and a bunch more.
In other forums, we’ve got
-Linguistic debates
-Discussions of UK’s prime minister politics
-Debates about the nature of political extremism
-Debates about the legacy and influence of racism in geek culture
and plenty more.
It’s just factually incorrect to suggest that everyone’s in agreement here. When someone who’s topic-banned makes that suggestion, and refuses to specify why, it comes across as petulant.
I listed ten different topics of active debate on the board from the last week or so. ywtf, you’re welcome to chime in on any of those: you’re not topic-banned from any of them. Do you have anything interesting to say about any of those topics, or any of the other topics that I didn’t mention? Or do you have just one thing you want to talk about, and if you’re unable to talk about that, you perceive conversation to be impossible?
The only opinion I can think of that doesn’t run afoul of the board’s policy on hate speech that could get a poster run out on a rail is support of Donald Trump. That’s the one subject where I believe a person may be piled upon if they begin expressing support openly. It wouldn’t be the mods doing it, but rather a horde of posters questioning the person and trying to convince them that they are wrong, even implying (or outright expressing) that the person is bad for holding that opinion. Not to mention that there have been so many trolls in recent years riling up the board intentionally with that opinion, that many people will automatically assume trolling for anyone who does so.
Otherwise, I can’t think of any other opinion that acts as such a trigger. Obviously there are opinions that will be unpopular and may find difficulty being accepted, and many will disagree openly with them. But that’s always going to be true anywhere.
The subject of women’s rights cannot be discussed on this board without it turning into a witch burning contest. And again, it’s not just here that it is like this. It’s everywhere on male dominated social media. “Women’s rights” are being interpreted as an evil dog whistle by the more ideological extremes of the left and right. Horseshoe theory is happening in real life.
Online I’m seeing women routinely demonized for simply saying they don’t want men (and I mean MEN) in places where they undress. I tested this out myself with a post in the Pronoun thread, and got exactly the reaction I predicted.
It is no longer socially acceptable for women to advocate for spaces where they don’t have to worry about the male gaze or worse. If they don’t instantly get vilified for airing that opinion, they will be treated to endless mansplaining and that solipsistic narcissism I mentioned earlier. “I’m not worried about X, so there’s something wrong with everyone who is”. This type of surface level thinking is what is currently passing as critical analysis.
After the toppling of Roe v Wade, it is intensely terrifying to see how the discourse treats female perspectives that challenge more privileged male perspectives.
This is a bad example, because it’s awfully close to the topic you were banned from discussing. There are lots of other women’s issues, though. Abortion is an excellent example. You could write about the glass ceiling, or the impact of tax laws on women, or how housework is routinely split among adults and valued, or why female authors often use male pen names, or about female experience being unheard by contractors, doctors, etc.
Can you show some examples of places where men (and I mean MEN) undress alongside women they don’t know?
Good points, @Left_Hand_of_Dorkness
On some specific issues, the Board has come to the point where there is a specific editorial line. Or where there is a community consensus. Call it tales thrice told or things that are being held to be fundamental values, but yes, a few things will either be officially taken off the table, or will result in “social censure” from the general majority on the Board. That is not an injustice to anyone. Trans-exclusion, “racialism”, etc. are not up for debate any more. Furl your banners.
And as I commented elsewhere: in 1999 the SDMB was pretty ahead relative to the environment of 1999; but it’s not 1999 any more, is it? As mentioned earlier, back then it was known that like every other online space of the 90s it was mostly dominated by American Male Geek culture, which itself was mostly White Straight Middle-class, plus Alternative Weekly Readers (from the print version of Straight Dope), who were more diverse but still predominantly Educated Urban types. And geek-adjacent or Alternative-reader women, LGBTQ, BIPOC, etc. were here because by the standard of 1999 it was more welcoming than other places. But as time went on, many of them began asking themselves why stick around somewhere that resisted when they pointed out we should move forward from there.
In 1999 I was a man in my 30s. Today I’m middle aged. What was a forward stance for me on these issues then is now either mainstream or left behind. I have to live with that. Here and IRL. Does it tick me off that sometimes people are not gentle or polite about reminding me of that? Yes, it does. But that is a different matter of form, not of substance.
Thank you for sharing. I am not a woman so I won’t pontificate on the experience for women on this board. Hopefully some of the other women in this thread will speak up, if they wish, about whether their experience matches yours, and whether they think your description of the board culture is correct.
I think the board has made progress on many issues, including (as best as I can figure) the treatment of women, but we still haven’t made as much as needed. Certainly not if you’ve been demonized for expressing worry about men assaulting women in bathrooms entirely aside from transgender issues (I couldn’t find these posts in that thread, but it was hard to search through it so I may have missed it).
Awfully close? It’s exactly the topic she is banned from. Who do you think she means when she says MEN in women’s dressing rooms?
She cited this news article about an attempted assault in a bathroom:
As far as I can tell, this assault had nothing to do with trans issues – no one involved was trans, or pretending to be trans, or accused of being transphobic, etc. Also, AFAICT, in the thread in question, no one disputed that this is abhorrent behavior, or disputed that it is reasonable for women to be concerned about men behaving this way. But I may have missed what YWTF was alluding to.
So ywtf is back on the boards complaining about transwomen in women’s restrooms, in obvious violation of her topic ban. She then got mod-noted for doing so, and now she’s complaining about some mysterious echo-chamber, whose contents she won’t explain.
No wonder she didn’t link to what she was complaining about.
Again, this is objectively incorrect. Here’s an ongoing thread in which women’s rights are being actively discussed (specifically, sexist cultural expectations around women’s obligation to “dress their age”), and as far as I can tell, the inquisition hasn’t shown up. The difference is, nobody in the thread is being shitty about transwomen.
No, not a bad example. Its a very clear example of how women cannot talk about men and male violence without immediately being put on the defensive. And that’s the best case scenario. Worst case scenario is that they will immediately be demonized.
It actually is annoying that I took pains to point out a topic that is subject to problematic policing—despite my initial reservations—and the first response I get only affirms that the topic is problematically policed. “You can’t talk about this thing because it’s awfully close to this other thing”…how can you not see how this is going to have a chilling effect on everyone wanting to talk about women’s rights issues?
I’m talking about men in women’s spaces. No one else. Honestly.
When I say that I don’t want men telling me what to do with my uterus, I think you know who I’m talking about.
When I say that I don’t want men telling me I have to share restrooms and locker rooms with them, I’m talking about the same group of people as above.
I think your previous posts on this board suggest otherwise. But I recognize you’re in a difficult position discussing this and I’ve probably made it worse, so I’ll drop it.
You’ve never talked about women’s rights or male violence toward women. All you’ve talked about, all you’re still talking about is transwomen. That’s your whole schtick.
Then what exactly was the point of bringing that incident up in that thread?
Can you give an example of such a thread in which trans people’s rights aren’t the issue?
Can you point to a case in which that statement’s been “demonized”?
My post was in response to someone questioning the boundaries of hate speech. “Hate speech” has become an umbrella term for any stated opinions that could reasonable or unreasonably be interpreted as bigoted toward another group.
Women insisting on spaces separate from men is considered hate speech on those grounds. All the responses seem consistent with that conclusion. shrug
Yeah, want to see a pile on? Say men should be telling women what to do with their uterus!
Is it accurate to rephrase this as “women insisting on spaces separate from cis-men and trans-men is considered hate speech on those grounds”?
If it’s accurate, I’d love to see examples of what you’re talking about.
If it’s not, how is this not an end-run around your topic ban?