Get off my plane, mind-melded Fundie zealots!

The BBQ Pit
81

BeerDog, I was roflmao with that one!

I’m Catholic and very secure in my faith. I’m not preachy, but I always pray to God and ask for his help and guidance and try to be the best person I can.

Keeping that in mind, I have an aunt and uncle on my mom’s side that are, as a good friend of mine would say, “Jesus freaks”. My mom’s family has always been very close and I used to look forward to visiting with all of them… until one particular incident that opened my eyes.

My aunt asked me one time if I wanted to go to an youth assembly at their church. I was 15 at the time. They were having a well known Christian singer in for a small concert. I thought it would be kind of fun and said yes. Well, before the concert, the people who were just back from a mission in Guatemala had to tell their tale… and what a tale it was! They said that it was a real challenge for them to spread the word because all that where there were “idol worshipers and Catholics”. Now that really pissed me off. It was everything I could do to bite my tounge and suffer through the rest of it.

It really got me mad. I mean, where do they think their religion originated from anyway? I may not agree with the philosophies of other religions, but I don’t insult them. And to add insult to injury, my aunt knew full well that I was Catholic. What does she think anyway, that Catholics DON’T believe in Jesus? Puhleeeez!

What really bothers me is that they poo-poo people in their family who don’t go to THEIR church, or don’t believe in Jesus. I’m sorry, but this is FAMILY I’m talking about. I may not believe as you do, but I don’t go around insulting my brother just because he doesn’t go to church.

Sorry to rant, but this is a subject that I’m very sensitive about.

82

Wow. All these posts and not a single response from a believer? Not an single blast from someone telling you you’re going to hell or something? Maybe we are more tollerant than you give us credit for. I’m sorry that the public expression of faith (no matter how simplistic–as a believer, the way some folks do it even make me roll my eyes) could so ruin your day. Praying that God’s love will still find you.

83

MaryAnnQ, a similar thing happened to a friend of mine. He wasn’t feeling very well, and was laying in bed. His new roommate came in and asked if he was alright. My friend said, “No, my stomach hurts.” This was all the prompting the new roommate needed to get down on his knees next to my friends bed, lay his hands on my friends beautifully crafted gut, and ask God to “get these vile deamons that upset my roommate’s bowels so…” My friend wound up going to hospital. Aparently the deamsons turned themselves into 5 Supreme-Lardo-Cardio-Stopping burritos. Needless to say the roommate was very glad that he (with the help of God, of course) saved my friend (not to mention the stomach pump).

I got to school in DC and Bible humpers/humpers/bangers/freaks are always running around. For a while I would get accousted once every month for 5 months. Ususally I’d just tell them I was Catholic and they would say, “Oh…well I know some Catholics they’re nice people too.” But after one saving I got tired of it so I came up with a plan. The very next time I was accosted when the guy got to the part where he asks if I’m Christian or not, I say, “No, I don’t practice any kind of formalized religion.” “May I ask why not?” To which I look him straight in the eyes and say, “because my older brother was a member of the Heaven’s Gate cult and killed himself with the coming of the Hailbop comet. Now if you’ll excuse me (add slight quiver in voice) this isn’t something I like to talk about.” The guy just stood there looking at me.

I’ve never had any of them come up to me since.

-Murph

84

As a recovering fundie (I’m due for my 20 year chip soon) who remains Christian I think I appreciate this thread as much the atheists, Pagans, Wiccans and Satan (SDMB’s Satan anyway). I was once a Southern Baptist, direct from the Jack Chick school of tolerance, but have put that damaging influence behind me and come a little closer to the message Jesus was trying to get across. I don’t know my bible as well as I should but I have yet to find where Jesus said to be a sanctimonious asshole.

85

For three weeks, I’ve wavered back and forth on whether to post a reply to this thread. Now, I’m no big fan of Fundies, so I was hesitant to post anything that might resemble a defense of them. And I often get annoyed with their public displays of faith as described by Satan in the OP. I mean, Jesus instructed his followers to not make a big show of their prayers:

But the comment in the OP that has caused me to waver was this:

This assumption - that these people had selfishly spent all this money just so they could have a nice vacation - reveals that it’s not just Fundies that are guilty of judging others.

Is it not possible, even likely, that these people were undertaking this trip so that they could help people and make a difference? Is it conceivable that they may have been returning from someplace where they had helped build a school for some small, impoverished community? Or could they have been assisting in a big city soup kitchen for the homeless? The possible benevolent purposes of a trip such as this are endless.

I went on several church trips as a teenager back when I was caught up in the whole “Church” thing – a “Fundie”, if you will. (I am now more comfortable in my own independent spirituality.) Not once was the purpose of these trips to just have a nice vacation. They were always an opportunity for us to help people and make a difference, even if the difference was to simply strengthen ourselves spiritually.

It appears we all have a long row to hoe when it comes to tolerance and acceptance.

86

I have seen bumper stickers that said “in case of rapture, can I have your car” I need on for my truck:)

87

Dragwyr - I feel your pain. I grew up an athiest in a household where Dad was a decon, Mom was a deconness, both sisters were in the church choir and my brother played Jesus in a skit when he was a kid. Relations have improved since I left home, but they’re still strained.

Patty

88

*Originally posted by Satan *

[snip]

It becomes obvious to me that I am in the midst of a church trip.

At first I thought, well, more power to them. In fact, since I was reading a great book about various Fundamentalist movements throughout history, I was hoping that one of them might see what I was reading and ask me about it. Maybe spark an intelligent discussion.

[snip]

Yer pal,
Satan

end quote

Mind if I ask what the book is?

Fundalmentalists, I tell you what then. I doubt most of them know their own histories. They only know the dogma.

Cordially,

Myron M. Meyer
The Man Who

89

Several years ago, I worked for a rental and staging company in Atlanta. We handled trade shows, meetings, and conferences.
Due to some colossal blunder, the Georgia World Congress Center booked a Gay & Lesbian convention to share facilities with a Baptist convention. The Baptists had them erect (that’s a good one :)) a pipe and drape wall, so they wouldn’t be offended.
Well, we were done for the day and were headed over to the “other side” to meet up with some friends who were working the other show. As we got to the wall, this woman (no makeup, hair in a bun, wearing monocolor clothing) runs up and says, “You don’t know what they’re doing over there!” (I assume she thought they were sacrificing babies or something). One of the guys I was with put’s his hand on her shoulder and solemly tells her, “Mam, don’t worry. I will preach to anybody.” and with a “Praise Jesus!” we were off into the land of the heathens.

90

WOW! I read through both pages of this thread and did not see one single response from a believer, until I got near the very end of page 2. Wait, there were a couple of folks who are Christian but made it clear they’re not ‘fundies.’ In my book, if they say they’re Christian, then I believe them. But I didn’t see anyone who believes like me who had anything to say, at least until someone named cfc made a small post.

So I’ll throw my 2 cents’ worth in, and expect to see the avalanche of contradictory responses. Here goes:

First, we like to call ourselves evangelical Christians. Not fundies. I know that name is short for fundamentalists, but it still has some nastiness behind it. And that’s what brings me to my point. Over the years, I have seen people who believe that you must accept Jesus to go to heaven accused of being mean-spirited, pompous, name-calling, and intolerant of other views, among other things.

I absolutely acknowledge that some have been. Just because some Christians act like this doesn’t mean the essential message is wrong. Don’t judge God by His people.

Now, let’s take those accusations one by one and apply them to this and similar threads:

  1. Mean-spirited: Just go back and read the comments on this thread, and you will see almost 100% mean-spiritedness.

  2. Pompous: this was used on a couple of posts here, referring to those of us who have a shirt or bumper sticker claiming that we are going to heaven. Sorry, but don’t blame the messenger on this one. Jesus said so Himself: “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, and no one gets to the Father but through Me.” Of course, you have every right to either (a) not believe His statement; or (b) believe that Jesus never said it. But some of us have chosen to believe it, and that doesn’t make us pompous. We didn’t make it up. We just see a free gift and we’re happy to take Him up on His offer.

  3. Name-calling: Just go through the previous posts on this thread and count the number of times you see the word “fundie”, “Jeezoid,” etc. Just look at the name of this thread: “Get off my plane, mind-melded Fundie zealots!”

  4. Intolerant: Who’s being intolerant? Our religion tells us we need to tell other people. Jesus said 2000+ years ago that some will want to hear about it, and most won’t, but to spread the word anyway. If you want to deny us the chance to practice a vital part of our religion, then YOU are being intolerant.

On that last point, you may think that nobody has advocated keeping us from our freedom to share, but the kind of attitudes I have read here today could lead to the eventual squashing of the freedom of Christians to talk to others about Christianity. France just passed a law basically saying just that.
There. I’ve said it. Now let the flames begin.

91

This is actually difficult to talk about, considering the situation. I shant go into great detail, but I was attending a funeral of someone who was very close to me. It was traumatic to say the least. This person had died in an auto accident. I was distraught and crying, but holding together. After the service I approached the minister and simply said, “Thanks for your kind words.” To which his response was ,“Son, are you a Christian?” Shocked? Taken aback? Fuck yes. What was I going to do, get into a religious screaming match with a minister at a funeral? I just relpied, “No, I’m not, I follow my own religion,” and walked away. But I was so fucking pissed. Couldn’t he at least have said, “Thank you, I’m sorry for your loss,” before he felt the need to convert me? Okay, maybe he was working under the assumption that I was a Christian, and he was going to offer me the secret hand-shake or something, but that’s just downright arrogant in itself.

92

Okay, Spiritfood, you make a good point. Now, tis my turn to try.

Okay, well, I agree with many aspects of your statement, but the one that I can’t agree with is the part about fundamentalists spreading the word of God. Now, don’t get me wrong, I believe that this is a necessary part of religion (I’m a Catholic), BUT, you are overlooking the points of many of my companions on this list. See, we are not referring to Christians in general when we speak of these groups. We are speaking of a certain division of fundamentalists, who do not “spread the word of God” in any way that I can picture him agreeing with.

Now, last time I checked, the purpose of spreading the word of God was to bring more people into his love, and make them love him. Also the last time I checked, you do not make someone love you by shutting them out.

The fundamentalist groups that we speak of are not the ones that will talk theology with you, and listen to your words, then calmly state a rebuttal in an attempt to win you over. That, I can respect. No, the ones that are referred to on this thread are the ones who have, essentially, given up. They are the ones who, instead of trying to have an actual discussion with you to spread the word, tell you that you are going to hell, period. They are the ones that, instead of attempting to win people over through kind acts, thrust material into our faces with the threat of eternal fire and brimstone. They are the ones who, instead of spreading God’s love and compassion, tell a person with AIDS that it is God’s wrath incurred on the unjust.

On this thread, I don’t believe that we are trying to condemn organized religion. What we are doing is saying that religion should not be looked at as a “Get out of Hell free” card. If these groups that we speak of, which you don’t seem to be included in, want to “spread the word of God,” then they should actually DO that, keeping in mind that God represents love, peace, and understanding. Until then, these groups shouldn’t expect us to understand what they themselves aren’t willing to explain.

-Jester

93

I always weear my cross I never take it off… Wanna know why I wear a cross? of course you do … I wear it so that when im naked it reminds me to be good … but usually by that time its pretty much to late :o)~

94

Men’s Room, L.A.
(Buck Fowler, sung by Kinky Friedman)
Then a voice said,
“Kinky, it’s Jesus here, you know that I ain’t no square.
Well, I’ve got these pictures of me,
I mean statues, you know they’re everywhere.
Well, I may seem I come from Liverpool,
And then on the other hand I may come from France,
But if you don’t get off that toilet, well I’m just gonna have to dance.”

 I saw a picture yesterday in a men’s room near L.A. **

[/QUOTE]

95

Men’s Room, L.A.
(Buck Fowler, sung by Kinky Friedman)
Then a voice said,
“Kinky, it’s Jesus here, you know that I ain’t no square.
Well, I’ve got these pictures of me,
I mean statues, you know they’re everywhere.
Well, I may seem I come from Liverpool,
And then on the other hand I may come from France,
But if you don’t get off that toilet, well I’m just gonna have to dance.”

 I saw a picture yesterday in a men’s room near L.A. **

[/QUOTE]

I’ve always heard Kinky sing it:

Well, Kinky, I ain’t no square
I’ve got these pictures everywhere
From Aberdeem out to Frisco Bay
So if you’re hung up on the pot…
Feel free to use my favorite shot.
I saw a picture yesterday
In a Men’s Room in L.A.

96

One more thing for clarification:

I, along with most evangelicals, hate it when some professing believers talk about AIDS being a punishment from God, just like we hate it when that baptist guy from Kansas went to Matthew Sheppard’s funeral and held up signs saying “God hates fags!”. In fact, I hate the fact that the Crusades happened. I will never, ever excuse that kind of behavior, because it is the exact opposite of the Spirit of Christ. Just wanted to make that clear.

97

Some good posts here, especially the ones differentiating between “Fundies” and other Christians. I’m a Christian myself, with a long and fascinating testimony that I won’t share because you all could really give a rip I’m sure. My wife, The Reverend Mrs. Meyer, would have some good points to add as well, but she’s not here now, is she?

That said, I’d like to thank satan for mentioning The Battle For God by Karen Armstrong. It sounds fascinating and I’ll have to look it up when I get the chance.

I’ll take this opportunity then to recommend some other books that have shaped my opinion of God and Chistianity:

  1. Ken’s Guide to the Bible by Ken Smith.
    A non-Christian reads the Bible for the first time. Great insights that someone who has been exposed to the Bible for his entire life could otherwise never experience. His take on Jesus is especially wonderful and completely accurate and you’ll never hear it in any sermon anywhere. Honestly irreverant.
    Ken Smith is also the author of the recent Mental Hygenie, an encyclopedia/history of those classic educational films that show up on MST3K. Also fascinating, also recommended.

  2. Preach Liberty: Selection from the Bible for Progressives. editor Steve Bachman
    Your guide to living la vida left-wing with the Bible as your guide. The Christians many of the folks on this board would like to meet (and as satan put it “Maybe spark an intelligent discussion” with) have read this book and are thus unavailable to talk to as they are also too busy doing Jesus’ work to leave nasty tracts in public bathrooms.

  3. Faith Healers by James Randi. An expose’ on the evangelists. Every Christian should read it in order to avoid being taken by the tricks. If you’re not much of a reader or can’t stand James Randi, the Steve Martin movie “Leap of Faith” (which is actually The Music Man in disguise) will do you just as good. BTW, if anyone knows which Randi book has the bible verse that Oral Roberts mistranslated in order to come up with his 900 Foot Tall Jesus, please let me know.

  4. “The Chosen” and “The Promise” by Chaim Potok. The ultimate battle between faith and reason, as contrasted by an orthodox Jew and his progressive Jewish friend.

  5. The Brothers K by David James Duncan. This book will leave you sympathetic toward the Fundies. An absolutely brilliant piece of writing detailing the lives of four brothers raised in a strict Seventh Day Adventist home and the paths they follow. An essential read for the faithful and great literature for all.

Well there you go. Relevant to absolutely nothing. For the Unitarian position may I also recommend the essay in Robert Fulgham’s Maybe, Maybe Not about fixing the potholes in the church parking lot.

Cordially,

Myron M. Meyer
The Man Who

98

Sure, it’s possible. Want to know what makes me think it’s not as likely as you think it is?

The t-shirts.

If you get together with your church and take a trip to perform some charitable deed, you don’t waste money that could go to the charity on souvenir t-shirts touting the fact that you did it. I mean, how many times do you see people wearing “I built 5 houses for the homeless with Landover Baptist Church and all I got was this lousy t-shirt” on their chest? I mean, that’s a waste of money that would never have occurred if the people were half as Christian as their shirts made them out to be.

My completely uneducated guess is that they were coming back from one of those tent revival meetings that are so popular in the South. That’s the kind of event for which it would make sense to have a commemorative t-shirt.

99

**

And the tee-shirts were for… What now?

Also, as you see in my very own OP, I also said that it WAS harsh of me to judge them in this manner, and I let it go without another thought.

I only mentioned it in the name of accuracy to point out what I was feeling and why, even when it was not that kind to myself.

Yer pal,
Satan

[sub]I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Four months, one day, 18 hours, 23 minutes and 42 seconds.
4950 cigarettes not smoked, saving $618.83.
Life saved: 2 weeks, 3 days, 4 hours, 30 minutes.[/sub]

"Satan is not an unattractive person."-Drain Bead
[sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey!*[/sub]

ATHENA HAD AN EROTIC DREAM ABOUT ME!!

100

It is true that Christians are supposed to share their faith with others, but I believe it is a dreadful mistake to treat people as targets for salvation rather than as human beings. How unwise to accost strangers without caring for their individual needs, fears, wants and desires. Who wouldn’t be repulsed by that approach? I go along with St. Francis, who said “Preach the gospel at all times; if necessary, use words”. It’s more in line with what Jesus taught, and infinitely more difficult.