Girl-girl exception to monogamy?

[dracoi]

@Polerius

I think the men who voted in this poll (roughly 65 to 8, if the voters are of roughly equal genders) would beg to differ with your assertion.

I’m one of those guys, and I’d agree with Blackberry’s position. There are lots of things I’d consider cheating, but there are degrees of badness. Purely emotional cheating is not as bad as adding a physical component. Drunken one-night stand is not as bad as years-long affairs. First offense is not as bad as repeat offenses. And cheating with a woman is definitely not as threatening to me as cheating with a man.

(And for the record: I’m not even particularly intrigued by the idea of a threesome.)

[Tim_R.Mortiss]

@Claverhouse

It’s also not adultery if you keep your fingers crossed the whole time.

No, it’s not adultery if you keep your *legs *crossed the whole time.

[Polerius]

@Broomstick

Yeah, that’s why I said “a lot” instead of “all”.

You said:
“For a lot of straight men it’s still all about them, their dicks, and the paternity of their offspring. Girl-girl doesn’t count because it’s not involving them, not involving their dicks, and doesn’t affect the paternity of their children and therefore isn’t really sex.”

First, what is “a lot of straight men”? Is that the majority? Or just a non-negligible minority of them?

Second, however many there are of such men, you claim that for these men, “it’s still all about them, their dicks, and the paternity of their offspring”. So, these guys don’t care about STD’s? If their wives were sterile, they wouldn’t mind the wives having sex with tons of other guys, since there would not be an issue with the “paternity of the offspring”?

I think you’re just wrong that there are that many men in monogamous relationships, who’s only concern wrt their wives’ extra-marital sex is the issue of offspring.

It seems to me that the reason so many men seem to be OK with their wives having some girl-girl sex is not because of the offspring issue, but because, due to societal changes in the past 10-20 years, girl-girl sex has lost its taboo, its “bite”, its stigma.

I assume (and I’d like to see studies/surveys on this) that most men would have not been OK with their wives having sex with another woman back in the 40s or maybe even 80s. Just like most women today are not OK with their husbands having sex with another man (even though there is no possibility of offspring from those relationships, which according to you is the only deciding factor for “a lot” of people)

There’s nothing special about what’s going on today, and it’s funny that people try to find rational reasons why people are OK with girl-girl sex, when in other societies the reverse was true: e.g. in ancient Greece, it was OK for guys to have guy-guy sex, and still end up in a marriage with a woman. Guy-guy sex was not a taboo, it had no stigma, so guys did it, and women were not bothered by it.

As to why guy-guy sex was OK in ancient Greece and girl-girl sex is OK in 21st century USA, I don’t know. That would be an interesting question for sociologists to answer.

But the reason girl-girl sex is OK today is not because there can’t be any offspring.

[Gyrate]

Put me down for “sex with another person is still sex, regardless of the genders involved, but ‘cheating’ is defined by the terms of the relationship”. If there’s an explicit or implicit agreement that sex outside the relationship, in any or all forms, is permitted, then adherence to that agreement is not cheating. But girl-girl sex in a relationship where strict monogamy is the default would be cheating, until such time as the relationship changes.

[Broomstick]

@Polerius

First, what is “a lot of straight men”? Is that the majority? Or just a non-negligible minority of them?

Non-negligible minority

So, these guys don’t care about STD’s?

Of course they do - it affects their dicks, doesn’t it?

If their wives were sterile, they wouldn’t mind the wives having sex with tons of other guys, since there would not be an issue with the “paternity of the offspring”?

It’s not a rationally thought out position on their part, so I doubt it’s that cut and dried. Also, even if the wife is sterile having sex with other men means it’s not *his *dick getting stroked so yeah, he’ll probably be jealous.

I think you’re just wrong that there are that many men in monogamous relationships, who’s only concern wrt their wives’ extra-marital sex is the issue of offspring.

Well, that’s NOT what I said. I gave THREE reasons, not one, and it’s curious how you’re focusing on them in isolation.

Just like most women today are not OK with their husbands having sex with another man (even though there is no possibility of offspring from those relationships, which according to you is the only deciding factor for “a lot” of people)

Again, that’s NOTE what I said. I gave THREE reasons, not one. I did not weight any of those three and I think they’re all in play here. Also, I was speaking about men, not women, so please don’t put words in my mouth

You’re not reading what I wrote, you’re reading what you want to see. Please stop doing that.

[SciFiSam]

@Grumman

That would be entirely dependent on what her partner thought of it… or you could just get up on your soapbox and say how terrible it is that this lesbian doesn’t have a problem with her bisexual partner sleeping with a guy on the side. :rolleyes:

It’s not terrible in the slightest, but it’s not a monogamous relationship, which is what this thread is about.

The op’s wife and friends do seem to be saying that lesbian sex doesn’t really count as sex. They’re not saying that it would bother them less, but that it doesn’t count as cheating.

[LinusK]

I’m surprised so many people are offended. If there was a lesbian exception for having sex with a guy, it wouldn’t bother me in the least. Especially if I was the guy.

[Lumpy]

I voted yes, but I’ll add a caveat: it’s cheating if the other woman is trying to convince your wife to leave you for her.

[StusBlues]

I’d prefer a third option, really. The truth is that I would be MUCH more likely to not have a problem with my partner having a side thing with another woman because there are things she could share in that relationship that I just would not be able to give her, but that’s not the same thing as saying it “doesn’t count” or some fool thing like that.

[all_timestamps_displayed]

Based on averages, girl/girl is probably the scenario that is least considered cheating but as far as relationships go it’s a case by case thing.

It’s only cheating if it’s against the rules. If the game is poker queens wild then it’s poker queens wild.

[SmellMyWort]

I don’t get the comments about it not being sex; of course it’s still sex. And if the encounter or general exception wasn’t discussed ahead of time it’s cheating whether the new partner is the same sex or not. That is not to say that a guy won’t be less upset (or not care at all) if his wife cheats with a woman than if it were with a man. Maybe the OP’s wife equates “it’s not cheating” to “I can get away with it.”

[TBG]

IMO unless you get to participate (or at least watch, if that’s your thing) it’s most definitely cheating whether with a man, woman, or other*.

Private self pleasure’s okay, though. Ain’t cheatin if it ain’t multiplayer.

*[sub][sup]-I’m not sure about sex-bots. Granted that’s a topic for the future, not right here right now, but would a sex-bot count as cheating, or just as using a sex toy… hmmm…[/sup][/sub]

[MyFootsZZZ]

@TBG

IMO unless you get to participate (or at least watch, if that’s your thing) it’s most definitely cheating whether with a man, woman, or other*.

Private self pleasure’s okay, though. Ain’t cheatin if it ain’t multiplayer.

*[sub][sup]-I’m not sure about sex-bots. Granted that’s a topic for the future, not right here right now, but would a sex-bot count as cheating, or just as using a sex toy… hmmm…[/sup][/sub]

I agree with this.

As for sex-bots, I wouldn’t feel at all threatened if my SO had a sex-bot, so long as I can have one. As long as my SO spends a healthy amount of time with me, I say bring on the sex-bots!!!

[TheSeaOtter]

@MostlyClueless

What is considered cheating is up to the people in the relationship…

Not sure why this thread went on so long - this is the only correct response. Every relationship is different. Sensible people make clear to their partners what they expect, fidelity-wise. If your expectation is that they don’t have sex with anyone else, and they know that, and do so anyway, that’s cheating. The genders of the various parties is irrelevant.

[SciFiSam]

@TheSeaOtter

Not sure why this thread went on so long - this is the only correct response. Every relationship is different. Sensible people make clear to their partners what they expect, fidelity-wise. If your expectation is that they don’t have sex with anyone else, and they know that, and do so anyway, that’s cheating. The genders of the various parties is irrelevant.

Because the OP specifically said monogamy, making posts about “it’s up to the couple” superfluous. If the couple chooses to allow some sex with other partners, but with limits, it’s not monogamy.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@Grumman

Whether it’s cheating or not is up to their partner, and their partner is less likely to have a problem with it if their wife has sex with another woman, for a variety of reasons. A lesbian tryst isn’t going to get her pregnant and risk having some judge declare that you have to support the kid, the other woman is offering something different rather than something better, so it doesn’t carry the same implied insult, and men like lesbian sex.

I’m a straight guy who finds find lesbian sex pretty boring, actually.

But that’s not why I’d be bothered by my wife having sex with another woman. In my experience that seems more likely to signal a breakdown in the relationship than a hetero affair, as it would likely signal that she was about to acknowledge that she wasn’t really straight in the first place. I’ve seen it happen more than once.

[RTFirefly]

@Skald_the_Rhymer

I’m a straight guy who finds find lesbian sex pretty boring, actually.

But that’s not why I’d be bothered by my wife having sex with another woman. In my experience that seems more likely to signal a breakdown in the relationship than a hetero affair, as it would likely signal that she was about to acknowledge that she wasn’t really straight in the first place. I’ve seen it happen more than once.

The problem there, though, isn’t the affair itself, it’s that the partners in the marriage want fundamentally incompatible things. The only way to continue the marriage is for the woman to live a lie.

[Meatros]

Unless you have an agreement beforehand, it’s cheating IMO.

[Marion_Wormer]

I can speak of the experience of a person in my family.

In fundamentalist Christian churches where divorces are never granted (and divorced women are shunned), if a woman marries a man who then has an affair with another man, it was acceptable grounds for divorce. If however, he had an affair with a woman, it would not be grounds for a divorce. The couple would need to ‘work through it’.

I’m just reporting this, not stating an opinion.

[Slow_Moving_Vehicle]

Cheating isn’t about penises and vaginas, it’s about lies. If your spouse would be hurt if they found out, it’s cheating.

My $0.02.