"Girls Gone Wild" -- product of or failure of feminism?

Great Debates
81

If you get complimentary hoots and hollers for waving your winkee about in public, go right ahead and more power to you.

If they start making puking noises and generally want you to put it away, please do put it away and hide yourself for that matter.

If they start sounding angry, throw heavy and or sharp objects at you and sirens can be heard, I suggest you run.

I am sure that american girls will be arrested for GGW behavior here in the states as well. It is not appropriate in all situations or everyplace. Flashing your knockers anywhere in Disneyland gets you ejected and arrested.

Puh-lease to give to me a big fat BREAK!!

When a woman takes her top off to expose her luscious numnums in my field of vision, the first thing that goes thru my mind are

BOOBS! Naked Boobs! Naked boobs for real! BIG naked Boobs! WoW, Shes really showi…awwwww

and by that time, the naked boobs are gone. Before my brain starts processing the incredible sense of euphoria and loss that it just suffered, it shuts off the pain by going into intense search mode. If I am lucky more naked boobs appear and my attention is focused elsewhere. My mind will not pick up the face of the previous owner of the naked boobs nor will try to hunt it down for any further action than to say a sincere Thank You for the quick shot of endorphins.

If my brain ever does register the thought of getting easy sex, it would be with the fantasy of the babe that flashed me, Not the real woman because I know the real woman will say hurtfull things like “NO!” and “get away from me, you dork” and even “POLICE!” Tho I never talk about the babe as an easy sex mark, when other men do it, they are talking about their fantasy as well. They are verbalizing their sexual fantasy to either enhance the 5 second incident of boob exposure or they are comparing notes with other salivating men.

What you are saying is self righteous AND demeaning to the point you are objectifying all men as brainless sex hungry neanderthals with no self control. Only screwed up psychos who cant tell reality from fantasy are prone to such criminal behavior. Stare, gawk, hoot and holler at a naked woman is acceptable if the woman chooses to bare herself. Gratuities and a show of appreciation is also acceptable. The key to acceptable crowd behavior is whatever the woman allows. If all she permits is to look then do so and never touch.

82

Sure, prisoner, there are jerk Neanderthals out there. I’ll tell you something about them … the nastier they talk about wild women, the less contact they genrally have with real-life women. A lot of the raw talk about women is coming from resentment from guys who either cna’t get laid at all or can’t get laid often enough or by everyone they like, so they take it out on women generally, and the women who flash are easy targets for them.

I remember a great blog I came across from some English guy who married a free-spirited German woman. He and she have kids and a long-term marriage, and his blog was about the constant fighting that he and his wife engaged in. He was clearly crazy about her and clearly enjoyed tghe fights as part of their relationship. In one point of the blog, he mentions that he gets a lot of email saying, “Why don’t you just dump the bitch?” He responds, 'It’s very gratifying to receive relationship advice from someone like you, who so clearly has had a lot of experience living with a woman."

I feel the same way about Neanderthals. Their talk about “skanks” and “ho-bags” just reveals them as butt-ignorant morons where women are concerned. And you’re right, prisoner, there’s a lot of them out there, but some of them grow up and some of them get wise, and some of them wind up in prison.

83

I’m not sure about your assertion there. I know several women of a certain age who maintain that the 1960’s era of “free love” was exploitive of women. There may have been large numbers of men who celebrated women’s growing freedom, but there were plenty who just enjoyed the excuse for some no-strings noogie.

OTOH, I don’t entirely disagree with your central thesis. IMHO, the whole GGW phenomenon cheapens all of us. Apparently that’s what people want.

84

  1. Yes.

  2. I was amazed to hear Phil Hendrie, not a Christian, go ballistic about this stupid tape the other night. His rage was against the stupid producer of this tape, not the children who got tricked into performing on camera, and also against American society in general that pushes many of our children into sex way too early.

Why was Phil so angry? He has girls, or at least one girl. He made it very clear what would happen to any pervert that laid hands on any of his kids.

85

Interesting: what we see is that at least some people who oppose GGW do so on the basis that it threatens their property rights toward their female children. They don’t believe that their daughters, even upon achieving maturity, have a right or capacity to make their own decisions.

GGW might not be a feminist landmark, but trying to censor it is certainly anti-feminist. Feminism ought to be about letting everyone, male or female, make their own sexual decisions. If someone gets off on sexually exciting strangers, that’s their business; trying to tell them that they’re not supposed to do that is unethical and antifeminist.

Daniel

86

What?!

Please tell me you don’t have children.

:frowning:

87

Glad to do so: I don’t have children. When and if I do, however, I’ll let them make their own sexual decisions once they assume majority, and I won’t be the kind of ass that makes threats against “perverts” who “trick” them into performing on camera.

Once a kid is eighteen, the parent doesn’t get a say in what the kid does. The guy you cited seems to think that his adult daughters won’t be capable of making independent, informed decisions; unless his daughters are mentally impaired, that reflects more on him than on anyone else.

Daniel

88

Sure, but not to sound too muck like Gaggle, but women might stop acting like sex objects, as well.

The could influence the final score too, don’t you think?

-Joe

89

Oh absolutely, Merijeek. Women have always had the power. It is the mans power to make women think they dont have the power.

90

From what Phil said, this scum producer is also involved in filming underage girls. That’s where his comments were directed, at any pervert who touches his underage children. You don’t appear to understand the natural reaction of most parents to protect their children. It has nothing to do with owning them.

:frowning:

Btw, if you don’t believe there are any perverts out there you are sadly misinformed. The damage done by these sick people can last a lifetime.

91

Filmimg underage girls is a different issue.

92

It is possible to both appreciate a woman for her beauty and to desire her, or either or. And there’s nothing wrong with any of this, despite your puritan complaints.

No, but thank you for explaining the degenerate manner in which some men view women. And then you complain about objectification!

Yes, you will note it is the ones who hoot and holler. Go back to my previous point about this being more of a male problem than a female one.

Seriously disturbed things, indicative of male chauvinism and objectification tendencies as you described them earlier. What you seem to fail to understand is that not all men look at women in such a degrading manner. Sure, our first impulse is to want to have sex with an attractive woman. Some people – particularly the immature and insecure – can’t handle this primordial impulse and thus engage in all sorts of crude behaviour, such as hollering or grabbing (I already addressed these items in a previous reply to you).

It’s perfectly normal for men to want to have sex with women they consider attractive, that’s what males are designed to desire and it’s a response everything about the female body is designed to stimulate. There is nothing inherently evil or despicable in this. The value judgements start flowing only once you choose a course of action following the impulse, i.e., do you appreciate happily and respectfully, or do your insecurities and prejudices force you to validate yourself and compensate for frustrated desire by screaming out coarse language or grabbing or harrassing?

93

I wonder how the videos would look if they consisted just of girls flashing, and not of men behaving like buffoons in response. Would it be like the NFL with no commentators? Would the girls look silly for their exhibitionism? I thought part of the appeal of the videos is the sense that there’s this massive party going on at which one can be a voyeur, if not participant.

In art classes we draw naked women all the time.

94

I used to draw naked women in math and PE classes too.

95

No, Max, your women were “nekkid”; I’m talking about “nudes”. :slight_smile:

96

You’re absolutely right that there is nothing wrong with a man wanting to have sex with a woman he finds attractive. But these videos are marketed after the men who hoot and holler, by your own admission…

…and think of women as sex toys.

97

Which says more about the guys than it does about the girls.

98

I’m not so sure that it does. The girls show their breasts for the hoots and hollers, as much as for the beads and t-shirts. So they are showing their breasts because they like to get hooted and hollered at by a lowlife that only thinks of her as a sex toy.

99

OK prisoner6655321, since your persistence seems nothing short of legendary and since you seem reluctant to address previous lengthier arguments, let’s try another angle. The girls in GGW, from what I understand and have seen, are in a party atmosphere with loud music and flowing booze. Downtown bar strips, nightclubs, or private party settings seem to be common. Guys (and girls) happen to hoot and holler in party situations, whether they involve drinking, sports, women, or whatever. Therefore it is not surprising that there should be a lot of hooting and hollering going on in GGW videos, since there always seems to be a party going on.

Take the party setting away, and those guys who still hoot and holler upon seeing an attractive womam probably are “lowlifes” as you described. But can you be sure that the GGW guys are in fact lowlifes and not just getting caught up in the moment? After all, women at male strip clubs also cheer wildly – invariably very much so – yet we don’t call them lowlifes.

I would also like you to establish that the “girls show their breasts for the hoots and hollers, as much as for the beads and t-shirts”. Don’t forget, many of the girls are inebriated – are you blaming them for getting drunk and having fun, or do you think these girls have serious character flaws, much like the “lowlifes”?

100

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Aren’t all these women legal adults (though maybe not legal to drink)?

Although I share the concern that another poster raised, that of the producers possibly taking advantage of inebriated women, I do believe that these women ultimately made the choice to drink, to go to a GGW party, and ultimately to be filmed for whatever it is they choose to do.

Taking away such responsibility and placing it in the hands of “objectifying men” is where I believe the failure of feminism lies. These women are adults who can and do make their own decisions, labels will continue to be bandied about, but they’re adults who risked such labels. Any attempt to take away the choice involved in this discussion is a disservice to all women.