Giving examples about someone's personality when it's only the tip of the iceberg

In My Humble Opinion
1

Something I’ve been struggling to communicate of late:

Sometimes people will challenge a description of themselves “What do you mean, I am immature? Can you give an example?” The difficulty lies in that they may be so thoroughly immature (or jerkish, or some other trait) that to give examples would not only be 1) exhausting but also 2) only scratch the surface or be the tip of the iceberg.

You could say, “The tone of your voice is immature,” but…even if they changed their tone, they’d still be 99% immature.

You could say, “Your choice of words is immature,” but…even if they changed their vocabulary, they’d still be 99% immature.

You could say, “The hand or face gestures you make are immature,” but…even if they changed their gestures, they’d still be 99% immature.

You could say, “The decisions you make are immature,” but…even if they changed their decisions, they’d still be 99% immature.

In other words, it’s like telling a bird that he or she does bird-like things like squawking, flying and having feathers. Even if the bird were to stop squawking, remove its feathers, go about walking on legs instead of flying…it’s still a bird. It’s like Trump asking, “What exactly about me do you find objectionable? Give a specific example” - and you respond, “That tweet you sent on April 2019 was not a good-sounding tweet”…that doesn’t even scratch the surface of what is wrong with Trump. The flaws with Trump go far beyond mere tweets.

How to communicate such things effectively?

2

If you find out, let me know. I’m usually on the other end of the attribution: making it for myself and being asked “What do you mean, you’re ____? Give me an example?”

It sure as hell is that.

Yeah, that.

3

I don’t think you can communicate it effectively. The situation shares a lot with the Dunning-Kruger effect, in that the either the personality trait they express also limits their ability to recognize the aspects of the trait or they are for some other reason oblivious.

4

Don’t.

You’re trying to persuade someone that they’re not a good person. Telling someone they’re immature is a pretty fundamental thing to tell them. What’s the percentage in convincing them that you’re right? What do you think will happen next?

Instead, try to convince them that you are bothered by specific things they do, and ask them, based on the strength of your relationship, not to do those things.

Think whatever you’d like about their shitty personality, but for Christ’s sake let it stop with thoughts.

5

This. Once you start with “you are…”, with 90% of people you’ve already lost the argument.

“You’re immature.”
“How?”
“You sound like a kid when you talk.”

Man, as person #2, this isn’t a conversation I want to continue having! :laughing:

“You know, sucky as it is, deeper voices are considered more authoritative. Next time, try deepening yours.”

As person #2, this is a better approach. I might still get offended, but there is a solid chance I will respond with a “Yeah? Thanks!”

“Want some advice?”
“Sure.”
“When you can, deepen your voice. Makes you sound more… solid, more of a presence.”

This may be best, after all you asked their permission and it was granted.

Anyway, point is, there are better ways to give advice than by insulting someone to better themselves.

6

In what context is this happening, and why are you critiquing their personality in the first place? Are you breaking up with them, either in a romantic or a friendship sense? Then just break up, keep the explanations to a minimum, and make them as non-hurtful as possible. Is it your job to give them a performance evaluation? Then focus on the things they DO and can improve in a meaningful way, not personality traits. Are they your kid, or some other young person you are responsible for mentoring? This is pretty much the only situation I can think of where it’s acceptable to try to mold someone else’s character, but in that case immaturity kind of goes with the territory, so again, it would make sense to focus on stuff they can actually do something about.

7

I’m plenty mature. You’re the one that’s immature. Only an immature person would say what you just did. I’m telling.

8

“Can I give you an example? I can make a list! How much time you got?”

9

Make it an alphabetical list, I gots all day.

10

What are you hoping to accomplish by telling these people they’re immature (or whatever)?

11

“Your entire being is the Ur-example.”

12

I agree with others that calling someone out for their personality is dickish unless you’re breaking up with them. Even if you’re breaking up with someone ,a critique of their personality isn’t necessary. You could just describe their annoying behaviors, if prompted for an explanation.

13

I had a roommate in college who was an all-around jerk. At the time, I was in architecture school, and in an art/architecture history class I was taking we were learning about Renaissance Men - guys like Leonardo Da Vinci and Michelangelo who were accomplished in multiple disciplines. So whenever someone would ask me for specifics about how my roommate was a jerk, I’d say “Well, he’s kind of a Renaissance Jerk.”

14

While it’s true that it is usually useless to get into a situation where you need to explain someone’s immaturity to them, there might be exceptions. What if a person came to you and said, “Friend, I need help. I keep trying to get to know my classmates better, but they always disengage themselves quickly. I assume it’s something I’m doing. Can you give me some feedback?”

In that case, your best bet is to monitor the person’s behavior looking for highly representative examples that are specific, understandable, and fixable.

I came to this thread not realizing it was about lecturing someone directly about their flaws - I thought maybe it was along the lines of, “how do I efficiently explain (to my boss, friend, partner) why this other person is so annoying?” And being an insufferable internet denizen, now I gotta answer that question.

I used to work with someone who was astonishingly conceited. He wasn’t a narcissist like Trump - on the contrary, he was actually a pretty compassionate guy - and he was pretty smart, hardworking, and had many good qualities. But boy, did he need a visit to the Total Perspective Vortex. His assessment of his own importance in the world was overstated bordering on delusional.

How to summarize a character like that? I finally settled on one story that I think is illustrative. This was in the days before the internet, and he wrote the Pope a letter complaining about … oh, I dunno, racism maybe, or poverty, or both, or something, adding in no uncertain terms that the Catholic Church should DO SOMETHING."

A few weeks later he got back a nice typed note, clearly a form letter, that said something like, “Dear X, thank you so much for your thoughtful ideas. I see that you are a very caring person. I share you sentiments and hope that people like you will be able to move the world to become a better place. With God’s love, signed, the Pope.”

My boss carried that letter around the office for days, showing it to anyone he could waylay, eventually tacking it up in a prominent spot in the middle of the office bulletin board. His comment? "Even the Pope listens to me now!"

See, that’s one story, but it tells you all you need to know about the guy’s miserably inaccurate self-assessment. If you really want to explain someone’s personality flaw, find an iconic example like that, and use it.

15

Change ‘you are’, to ‘sometimes, it almost seems, as though maybe you…’!

16

Sometimes analogies convey messages best.

Person 1: Your behavior is jerkish

Person 2: How so?

Person 1: Well, if you remove all of Joseph Stalin’s good personality traits, what’s left is you.