Ah, now I get it. You’re saying that either
a) I was ‘Vanilla’, but was actually a Sleeper, and have been recruited to the Scum side,
b) I am now and always have been Scum, or
c) I was then, and remain now, Town.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Yes, those are the possible outcomes.
But those are also the possible outcomes for quite a few players.
If you take points 1,2, and 3, you’ll see the suspicious parts of your actual claim/slip/comment
Which brings up a question. Which was it? a claim? a slip? or a comment?
Lunch break post.
Considering his claim:
Unvote Mahaloth.
I will try to vote again this afternoon/evening – in the next five hours or so.
I have never used a smiley before but :smack:
My confusion aside, we still don’t know if scum successfully recruited last night or didn’t try to recruit at all. Does anyone have any thoughts about this? It helps scum to have us wondering about whether we have a Doc and another scum player, because it makes it harder for us to plan. But would scum give up an opportunity to recruit, considering their terrible start?
Okay. I hate it when this game keeps me from sleeping, but I couldn’t stop thinking about the mass Vanilla Claim (plus Vig!). Hopefully by posting this I’ll be able to put my mind to rest.
We should do this! But we must do it in a proper way. I call upon Mental Guy and/or Mahaloth to publish a RANDOM claim order. Whoever posts first will be the ‘correct’ list.
After the list is published, everyone should claim in order. Move quickly people, this is a very tangible advantage. So much so, I won’t be surprised if the game gets called.
Consensus? I don’t need no stinking consensus 
I have reason on my side.
Here it is in hopefully easy to follow form:
By mass vanilla claiming (plus vig! claiming Vanilla) we break the game in half. These two digestable pieces will be much easier to handle especially since the Town will have two kills (one lynch and one Vig) and scum only have one! We will use the lynch to kill from the set of power roles. We will use the Vig to kill the set of claimed Vanilla. But scum will only be able to kill from one of the two groups each cycle. That’s like playing a game where scum can only kill half the time!
If we eliminate the scum from any half (since the game is open we will know when this happens) the remaining players in that half are ALL CONFIRMED TOWN. This is true for the Vanilla Claimants as well!
The double plus bonus is that during the lynch, even if we are wrong, we will expose scum in that half. Anyone about to be lynched (is in the power role half) will claim. Uncontested claims will be believed. Therefore to generate a mislynch scum would have to counterclaim. And obviously, a lying scum claim will get counter claimed by Town. We then have a 50% chance of lynching scum outright and even if we screw up, the Vig has a 100% chance of vigging scum that following Night.
There are at most 4 scum. We will have to screw up royally to mess this up!
I can’t get over how awesome this is. If I’m overlooking something I’m going to be one sad kitten.
Divide and Conquer!
BTW, I generally don’t subscribe to claim orders, but I wanted one for this because the Vig is in a weird “when should I claim” bind. By making a list, that burden is relieved and it is unlikely for the Vig to tip his or her hand to the scum.
Yes, those are the possible outcomes. That’s not the question. The question is…into which bucket do you think I fit? You’ve advocated my lynch Today, and you’ve said my claim was most suspicious, so I’d just like to know what you think I am. Town? Scum? Chia Bingo Manager? Is there a particular reason why you refuse to tie yourself down to an answer?
In the meantime, I’ll go ahead and answer your question, since you’ve asked so nicely 
My statement was intended as a snarky reply to Gadarene’s comment pointing out how bad I would look if Pleonast flipped Town and MentalGuy flipped Scum. No more, and no less. It was a ‘mistake’, in that it was not my intention to make any statement regarding my alignment or my role. I should know better than to resort to snark while playing Mafia, because it tends to do me no good (see Day 1 of LOTR Mafia), but apparently I have yet to learn my lesson.
I would recommend that you be very clear about this.
I believe that I understand.
You are asking everyone to claim their actual role except for the Vigilante. The Vigilante is to claim Vanilla in order to remain hidden.
The Scum’s only chance to win is to both eliminate all of the power roles and the Vig. This will be difficult for them
Am I correct?
I don’t know where you fit.
That’s why your claim is suspicious.
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It could be a Scum gambit.
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If it was an unintentional slip, as you contend, it put you in a precarious position as a very tempting recruitment target.
While it’s possible that 2 may be accurate and you weren’t recruited, it’s still a suspicious situation.
That would be why I described it as suspicious.
I see know you’re trying to get me to decide which one is actually true. I can’t do that. But both situations cause me to be suspicious.
Because of that, you do make a tempting lynch target.
There probably isn’t time for a full role claim.
As it stands now, we might be best served by having our Vig take out one of our Vanilla (points at Suburban) and we can go through the claim toMorrow.
Of course, I do find it very strange that a mass claim now seems so plausible when you, I don’t know, DIDN’T MENTION SOMETHING?!@!!!
Unvote Mahaloth
Don’t have time now, but won’t have time later.
Great, thanks. You’re nearly as helpful as ed…
I was under the impression that masons were also to claim vanilla to deepen the pool? Since we have mahaloth alive and in the open, any masons who do claim have an instant check.
I don’t know. But if they did choose to gamble, would they do this, or would they instead fake a recruitment claim hoping to semi-confirm one of themselves as Town? Note that future recruitment claims won’t answer the question: As I understand the rules, Scum can continue to send “Arise Chicken” messages each Night even though both Sleepers have already been transmogrified.
But it is an important question. sachertorte’s plan, as I understand it, requires that at least (or more than) 1/3 of living players have claimable Town roles. I’m not sure even 6 is enough; without the Doc we only have 5.
No. The plan requires many claimable Town roles, not few.
Having the Vig claim Vanilla is a clever idea (though I’m not sure it’s good enough), but without that frill, it was obvious (even to me 
) that mass role claim was premature and I would look with suspicion on players who pretended not to know that.
Anyway, please check my arithmetic. Assuming both sleepers have been awakened (a dangerous assumption), we have 4 scum, 7 vanilla, 1 vig and 6 other power roles (3 Masons, Jailer, Doc, Cop). If the scum and vig claim Vanilla, we have 6 powers and 12 others. Each Day we Lynch an “other”; each Night a Power and another die. (We need not worry about Lynching the Vig, if each Day an “other” steps forth and says “I am not the Vig.”) The counts go from 6-12 to 5-10 to 4-8 … finally to 1-2. The three last players will be Mason, Vig and Fake Vig; in that ending Town may have only a 50% chance. (This is identical to sachertorte’s analysis, I think, but he seems to assume Mason will know which Vig is the fake at the ending. I’ve probably overlooked something.)
And that’s if no Scum claims a Town power role. If one does and gets a counterclaim I think it’s best to leave the two alone for at least a little while, hoping to test their claims (and allowing the Town Cop or Jailer to continue exercising his power) but, IIUC, sachertorte recommends Lynching one of the two immediately. If it’s a MisLynch and Vig then kills the Fake Power, the Power-Other count goes to 4-11 after one cycle.
So it looks to me like this plan is not yet a sure thing. I think we should wait a cycle, hoping Scum waste a NK on a Vanilla. Town powers need not claim unless they’re Lynch target or probable Vig target.
With my track record, it’s very likely my analysis here is flawed! :smack: I hope someone points out the error.
What seems wiser than mass claim, at least for now, is for the two leading Lynch candidates to claim. If neither claims Power, we can always Lynch one, Vig-kill the other. In any case, we’ll want at least 1 or 2 claimed Vanillas available as Lynch or Vig-kill candidates. I hope that Astral Rejection claims also, but feel free to Lynch me if you like:
I am Vanilla Town, unawakened.
Better than killing Vanilla of course is to kill Scum! I still think the attempted Lynchers of Mental Guy (Gadarene, peekercpa, Astral Rejection, and special ed) are prime candidates. I’ve tried to post cases against two of them, but let me confess I also find peerkcpa and special ed suspicious. Why? In the games I’ve seen, both peekercpa and special ed made argumentative posts that could easily be taken as scummish. In this game, they’re acting tame and Townish. I wonder if that’s a scum-tell? 
(Of course, it could also be one or both is undergoing RL changes that are flooding their brains with happy endorphins! )
I wrote this before septimus posted:
This was back in post #896 but I saw my name while re-reading and thought I should point out that I think Zeriel made a mistake. septimus didn’t say he needed to investigate me and Astral. He said that he needed to read our posts - mine was about Mahaloth. So septimus’s statement and later vote do have some connection.
Regarding the claim, I thought the point was just to claim “vanilla town” or “non-vanilla town”, with the Vig claiming “vanilla”. What happens if scum target the vanilla pool, hoping to hit the Vig?
After septimus’s post:
After re-reading, I was leaning towards voting septimus, because I find him slightly scummier than Astral, for the timing of his vote-switch away from Pleo and his weird (incomprehensible to me at least) reasoning about why we should delay Pleo’s lynch. I don’t know what to think about his claim now. I am holding off voting for now, to hear what others have to say.
I see one way that I’ve over-simplified this, but the details get complicated. In the round of 2-4 the Vig may announce his target to self-confirm. A single remaining Scum will NK the Vig, again leading to a 50% ending. One might also anticipate WIFOM Vig claims at the round of 3-6.
that puts them at risk for being killed by the Vigialante, no?
OK. I think I have caught up on sach’s plan. Are we still wiating for a claim order? Do we even have enough time left today to do this?
I’m going to ** vote septimus **.
It is the most compelling case on the table and his earlier comment about how he expects townie cred for something that I see as null-cred strikes me as scummy.
I’m on-board with the plan and await claim order.
If we don’t have enough time for a full claim, what about sach’s earlier idea:
Wouldn’t that settle the uncertainty over scum sleeper recruitment and give us a clearer picture for a mass claim tomorrow?
Why is sach in the hole if it turns out there was no recruit so therefore no doc?Shouldn’t whoever is the second most likely lynch target fill that role?