I don’t see why you cannot simply say, “I know that you find comfort in your God, and my sincere wish is for your comfort.”
Hmm…besides the fact that most people just don’t speak that way, what’s wrong with a simple “hope you feel better soon” and leaving religion out of it altogether? There’s really no value judgement involved in saying the latter, while the “God be with you” et al, do send additional info to both parties.
People don’t speak that way? I do.
But I don’t understand the point. It isn’t that God is a mantra for us and that we can just forget about Him and turn Him on and off like a spigot. We aren’t adding anything.
As people of faith, we find comfort in our God even when we are suffering from sickness or circumstance. “Hope you feel better soon,” can sound like an advertising slogan to a man who is depending on God for his comfort.
Sometimes, I get the impression that some atheists think that we carry God around with us like baggage and that everything would be better if we would just drop it.
While the following is an oversimplification, I think that Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is the one true eternal God and the creator of the universe. Ask a muslim who Allah is and see if their answer is the same.
If there is not already a thread on this issue, perhaps you should start one. By the way, I finally figured out the “quote” button. I am slow, but I’m getting there. 
serenitynow, sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine. “Allah” is Arabic for God, just as “Dieu” is French and “Kami” is Japanese. Also, in Islam, God is explicitly the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Islam acknowledges Christ as a major prophet, if not the literal Son of God. If someone who speaks Arabic wishes me Allah’s blessings, I’ll assume they’re talking about the same God I worship (I’m Christian) unless I have evidence to the contrary.
By the way, congratulations on working out the quote function!
CJ
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I’m willing to bet you’re not “most people” – which is what I wrote to begin with.
**
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I’d beg to differ. To me, the need to constantly invoke a deity in all your wishes is the very definition of mantra. Whether it becomes a subconscious response or not, doesn’t change the definition; not that I am aware of anyway.
Slogan for what exactly? I’d say its quite the opposite, as we have nothing to advertise. OTOH, the various religious wishes can certainly be interpreted as slogans for faith.
That I understand. Your impression pretty much mirrors my own when some people of faith try to foist their god/s on me.
I hope that the end result of all this is that I understand you and what you are saying.
I’m not “invoking a deity” any more than I am invoking verbs. This isn’t some sort of psychotic obsession. It’s me. (Forgive the bad grammar… just trying to sound more ordinary.) 
PS – Anyone have regular encounters with “proselytizing atheists”? Can’t think of the last time one rang my doorbell or accosted me in a public place.
Can you?
Allah is the same God of Abraham and Moses that is present in the Hebrew Bible. Jews don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus either, but most Christians do not think that Jews are talking about a different God when they say “God bless you.” Do you know what Arabic Christians call God? They call him “Allah.”
So why is it OK to accept a blessing from a Jew but not a Muslim?
RedFury wrote:
American Atheists proselytizes routinely. They even do political lobbying.
But now that you’ve opened that door, what about atheists who are not just neutral, but careless hand-stabbers who curse our God and use His name in frivolous and vulgar ways to amuse themselves at our expense. You know, invocations of Jesus impailed on a stick and so forth. Is that okay?
Fair enough, Lib.
I am all for better mutual understanding. And I don’t think either one of us would have much problem respecting the other’s views in this matter. I doubt you’d try to convert anyone in an airport – not if they didn’t ask you first anyway. By the same token, I am not a ‘militant atheist’ by any strecth of the imagination – live and let live works just fine for me.
With that said, my best wishes go out to you, sir. And may those wishes come through by praying to the deity of your choice. But I’ll respectfully have to leave that last part up to you*
*Hey! I’m trying – but it ain’t easy to sound like you! 
Sorry, didn’t see this until my last post went through.
No, it’s not ‘Ok’ nor am I suggesting anyone has exclusive rights on being a jerk. But as the overall percentages of theist and non-theists would suggest, the number of active proselytizers is much, much larger on the religious side, thus the likelyhood of encountering one of the latter is that much greater. I’d also propose that organized religion survives on recruitment, whereas non-theism/agnosticism, are views that people mostly arrive to on their own.
If asked, I could look for relevant sites to back that last assertion. However, I couldn’t do that until later today, as I need to tend to other matters at present.
Trust that is satisfactory.
That’s me, although I certainly don’t do it intentionally at your expense. As I said earlier, my blasphemic verbal tics are part of my vocabulary. When I swear, “Jesus fucking Christ!” I don’t think, “heh, I’ll show those religious morons who’s boss – watch this!” It’s just how I talk. And I find religious jokes especially funny.
But as I said earlier, although this stuff is part of my social circle’s easy vocabulary, and although none of my friends seem to mind it (indeed engaging in it themselves), I recognize that it bothers some people. Even though I don’t think there’s anything intrinsically wrong with blasphemy, I do try to avoid it around people that it would bother. I try to avoid it because it would bother them. And I wish religious people would try to avoid outspoken piety around me, for the same reason.
You ask whether, if religious people should avoid piety around atheists, atheists should have to use religious language around theists. Whether an atheist should have to say, “God bless you!” to a Christian.
Of course not. An atheist should avoid blasphemy around a theist, just as a theist should avoid piety around an atheist. If atheists were required to say, “God bless you!” to theists, the equivalent duty would be for theists to say, “Jesus fucking Christ” to atheists. That’s ridiculous.
Polycarp, I don’t mind the gentle tweaking. I know that prayer is important to you (although another of my pet peeves is the number of Christian analogies of God to Warfare: why couldn’t you have compared prayer to, say, the power of the waves on a beach, or a sudden flash of lightning, rather than to an atom bomb?) But while I know it’s important to you, you know that prayer is unimportant to me, and that telling me you’re praying for me (or my father) serves no purpose other than making me slightly uncomfortable. So why, other than tweaking me, would you want to tell me?
I don’t choose to be offended by it, any more than Libertarian chooses to be offended by blasphemy, any more than I choose to be delighted by wild blueberries. It’s one of my many personal likes and dislikes. Respecting those likes and dislikes in different people is common courtesy.
Daniel
Daniel
I don’t know when I’ve seen a more mixed message. Your post contained a couple of expressions that caused me to wince and attempt to read around them. All the while, you were saying that you avoid using the expressions out of respect for the people of faith whom they offend.
It’s like my saying something like this:
“I do my best not to judge the condemned unbelievers, and I’m sensitive to the fact that they don’t want to hear how much God truly loves them.”
I guess the last thing I’d say on the funeral issue, esp when someone is a known atheist, would be something non-offensive, and simple, like " I am sorry for your loss." Tends to invoke less hostility, and at the next funeral I attend, there may be sharp objects, so it’s probably safer.
For the record, I do see Lib’s point- his religion is who he is. I have no problem with this. However, I am confused by the idea that “Hope you feel better soon.” somehow devalues the faith of the other person. It’s the truth. I hope you feel better soon. I’m trying to experss compassion, and being polite. And not trying to sell you new turtle wax.
blanx
Aye, that’s a point of confusion, sure enough. If God is love–not just loving, but is love, then an expression of loving concern, honestly made, is His very essence. That it lacks the single phoneme “God” in the exhalation wouldn’t seem to matter much.
And contrariwise, a believer withholding the exhalation of that one small phoneme in favor of other exhalations that still carry that essence of what their God is–regardless of whether or not someone’s silly or mistaken for feeling offended by that particular sound–shouldn’t seem to be that much of an issue.
Blanx
I understand. If I were dying of cancer and someone said, “Come alive with Pepsi” or “Things go better with Coke,” I’d probably think they’re crazy. And if I know that the best they can do is offer get-well-card slogans like “Hope you feel better soon”, I won’t take offense. But like you said, my faith is who I am. The sentiment that I appreciate like no other will come from the person who has enough compassion to put aside his prejudice and direct me toward the source of my comfort: God. I won’t think he now believes in God; I’ll just think he cares more about me than words can even express.
Both “my God” and “your God” are dependent on a god existing. In either event, you are hoping that a third-party takes an action. If you do not believe that third party exists, you are saying “may a non-existent thing take an impossible action.” Yer lying.
Our anecdotes cancel out. Next!
If it’s not your “job,” why are we having this debate? Just keep your trap shut, and no problems arise.
But if you feel the need/desire to comfort someone, why not take the extra step and use words that will actually comfort the recipient? Novel concept that. Atheists will not be comforted by the invocation of a god - they believe such an invocation is ineffective.
Parse “may God comfort you” from an atheist’s POV. To us, you are saying, ‘may nothing happen.’ How much consoling would we get out of that?
I like to visit your world, but I wouldn’t want to live there. How would acting as the other person would like you to act “annoying or patronizing”? I lived with a (Conservative) Jewish seminary student for three years and, in deference to his beliefs, kept Kosher in our apartment. Three years of that must have annoyed and patronized the shit out of him, though he appears to have survived.
Your presumption appears to be that, to avoid acting in an annoying or patronizing manner, you must assume that everyone else believes what you believe. That’s whack.
Instead, a simple rule is, if you choose to act, act in a way that does not conflict with the beliefs of those affected by your action. If I choose to throw a party, I don’t plan it for Friday night, so that my observant Jewish friends aren’t excluded. If I invite Catholic friends over for dinner on a Friday in Lent, I don’t serve meat.
And if an atheist friend needs comforting, I don’t invoke a god.
It’s remarkably simple.
It wasn’t gratuitous; I’ve noticed that occasionally the use of vulgarity is effective to shock an individual into seeing things as they really are. Apparently, it was ineffective this time.
Lib, let’s just look at what you are trying to accomplish, and how best to achieve that goal.
The goal here is to provide comfort to a fellow human being. A statement invoking God and a statement not evoking God both may accomplish this goal.
The “god” is the variable. If you are consoling an atheist, a non-invocatory statement may or may not console, but it is guaranteed to not offend. An invocatory statement (i) may console, (ii) may have no effect, or (iii) may offend.
Why take the risk? Why increase the odds that you will not achieve your goal and help your fellow man?
It makes no sense.
So Revtim fell into category 1.
I’m not going to ask Revtim, but I’m guessing that, as an atheist, he would have been just as appreciative of a non-invocatory statement of consolation.
When a non-invocatory statement will accomplish your goal, why in G-d’s name would you chance it and make a statement that carries the risk of making the recipient feel worse?
Still not making sense.
Sua
I’m sincerely sorry, Lib. I hope you don’t mind me using this as an example for my point.
See, I have trouble with the idea that combinations of letters (or phonemes) are intrinsically offensive. For me, they’re only offensive for the message they carry. There’s really not much language that can be offered in a sterile argument that will bother me.
I don’t know if I’m being clear here. Your counter-example language, in which you used the phrase, “condemned unbelievers,” didn’t bother me at all, because I knew you were just offering a phrase to illustrate your point. If you used this phrase in conversation with me, it’d raise my hackles.
So I thought I was safe using the blasphemic phrases by way of example: I figured that as examples, they wouldn’t be offensive, whereas if I used them around you in normal conversation, they would be.
I was wrong, apparently. And now that I believe the phonemes themselves are offensive to you, I won’t even use such phrases by way of example around you any more.
Note that I don’t really understand why you’d be offended by the phrases when divorced from context. But I don’t need to understand why. I just need to know that they bother you, and that’s sufficient for me to stop using them around you.
After all, that’s the courtesy I’m asking for from religious folks; the least I can do is return it.
Daniel
But it’s nice Turtle Wax.
Consider it this way- for me, “hope you feel better soon” is shorthand for I’m thinking of you, and wish you nothing but good things. It would feel forced for me to say “God bless you.” It’d sound weird, also. I realize that linguistically, God bless you is in the subjunctive (cause otherwise it’d be “God blesses you.” Same with God damn it.), and that what is really being said is “I wish that (your) God bless you.” I s’pose when I think of it that way, it’s a little more palatable for me. Yet, the sentiment really is unchanged between “hope you feel better” and “God bless you”, isn’t it?