No, quite the opposite. It feels like you think that the Nazis were innocuous enough that you can compare them to whoever you’re calling a “language Nazi.”
That’s because I do recognize the hyperbole, and I think it’s trivializing and insensitive, for example to those of us who had we lived in Nazi Germany would have been murdered in the Holocaust.
Interesting story:
One time in Quebec, the St. Jean Baptiste Society (an unpleasant group of francophone suprematists) was holding a candlelight vigil outside a hospital for the “death of the French language”. Howard Galganov (the former leader of an unpleasant group of anglophone suprematists) got into a screaming match with them, during the course of which he referred to them as Nazis.
An elderly anglophone Jewish lady tottered out of the hospital and took issue with Howard’s use of the term “Nazis”, as a survivor of the death camps.
Oh, and BTW, I agree whole-heartedly with JTr’s comment about common courtesy. I’ll keep matt_mcl and wring’s wishes in mind when addressing them directly.
matt: Because many older Russians associate the word “pogrom” with Stalin’s murderous purges of the 30’s and 40’s does this necessarily make it improper for me to use the term when describing massive firings of middle-management by large corporations? This is not a facetious question; I’m trying to understand your criteria for accepting certain words into the language.
I am afraid matt is wrong. Even the Oxford dict allows you to use “nazi” as: 2"derog. aperson holding extreme racist or authoritarian views, or behaving brutally". matt, you may not like others to use that term in such phases as “language nazi”, but they do, it is acceptable, and it in no way is being rude. You can tell us you do not like us using the term in that fashion, but accussing someone of “trivializing the holocaust” becuase they do so is disingenuous, or just hypersensitive. Note that large numbers of MY people who killed in those same slave labor camps, so I DO know what it feels like.
As for terms like “queer & faggot” it is rather hard to keep up with the current PC term, and as long as the word is not meant rudely, a gentle correction is all that is required (“we prefer ‘Gay’, thanks”). When I was growing up, “negro” was the polite & proper term, but now folks don’t like it. Well, OK, but that does not mean someone who uses that term is insensitive or a racist, just a bit behind the times. However, yes, you can & should “gently correct” those who do not know the current acceptable phrase.
I just don’t want the word to end up used for every trivial annoyance, thereby reducing the actual Nazis by comparison. It would be like… It would be like people in 2050 going “I’ve got AIDS!” when they mean that they have a cold.
Daniel, I suppose there are differences of opinion on this subject. If this use of “Nazi” doesn’t offend you, then that’s fine, but it offends me and that’s what I told Scylla.
Scylla, by your logic, any request to do anything is Naziesque. “Do the dishes… or face the consequences of my annoyance!”
Or people now making light of the plague, which killed untold millions more than AIDS. Or people exclaiming that that weren’t expecting “some sort of Spanish Inquisition”, or referring to a witchhunt. It happens.
I also disagree that anyone could come to the conclusion that the Holocaust was any less horrible because they hear the term nazi often used to describe someone acting like an authoritarian jackass. If anything, it will help to reinforce public distaste for fascism.
matt- it isn’t that you did not like it, you went ahead and basicly said by his usage, he was trivializing the holocaust. There is a huge difference. In fact, if I wanted to be a HUGE asshole, I could say by your dragging the holocaust in as some sort of weapon to be pointed at someone who uses a word in a way you don’t like- that YOU were the one “trivializing the Holocaust”.
So, say you’re sorry, and get on with it.
Matt said:
““Do the dishes… or face the consequences of my annoyance!””
Ummm yeah, that does seem like a gestapo tactic.
Especially when my wife says it, and the consequences of her annoyance means… no boom, boom.
Nazi:
A member of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, founded in Germany in 1919 and brought to power in 1933 under Adolf Hitler.
**nazi. An adherent or advocate of policies characteristic of Nazism; a fascist. **
Fascism:
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
So saying you’re a “Language Nazi” seems to me to fall under the definition:
**nazi. An adherent or advocate of policies characteristic of Nazism; a fascist. **
where the term “fascist” is used in an exaggerated way.
Perhaps a better approach would have been for the offended party to do this exact research, then say something like “It may be verbally correct to say Language Nazi, but the term makes me uncomfortable.” More then likely the person using it would have stopped. No need to get all pissy about it.
Zette
Saying something has a “queer” smell for instance, means it reeks.
Thats why queer is a derogatory word.
Even “Gay” can be used in a derogatory fashion.
I think it was Abbie Hoffman who talked about how you have to be careful when cursing somebody out.
“Call a lady a coscksucker. Hey, that’s one nice lady.”
Ha! Realy? Did Abbie say that? funny.
queer (kwîr)
adj. queer·er, queer·est.
Deviating from the expected or normal; strange: a queer situation.
Odd or unconventional, as in behavior; eccentric. See Synonyms at strange.
Of a questionable nature or character; suspicious.
Slang. Fake; counterfeit.
Feeling slightly ill; queasy.
Offensive. Slang Gay; homosexual.
Zette:
"
[quoted definitions]
"
Nazi: …Using this word in connection with any identifiable person or corporation, or quoting anyone as doing so, is almost certainly defamatory.
-The Globe and Mail Style Book
Dictionary: Opinion presented as truth in alphabetical order.
-The Doubter’s Companion
Daniel:
What kind of pretzel logic is that? I said I (personally) didn’t like the way he was using the word “Nazi” because it trivializes the Holocaust. My reference to the Holocaust wasn’t a rhetorical weapon: it was the substance of my complaint.
Matt:
Apparently you are immovable on this. Fine. I’d like to think that I admit when I’m wrong, and I did apologize for calling you disingenuous.
You haven’t been able to produce an equally descriptive yet non holacaust trivializing term for “language nazi.”
Hopefully you can see that I chose the term not because I was insensitive to the tragedy of the holocaust, but because it was the most accurate term for what I was trying to convey.
When it comes down to it, conveying meaning is the whole point.
You can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
And, it IS supposed to be insulting.
I don’t subscribe to your restrictive language doctrine (I wanted to write fascist,) and do not feel compelled to do so, for the same reason that I won’t change my political party, paint my house a different color, or change my religion to suit your preference.
Your insistence that I do so or be labelled a bigot is unreasonable, and yes it does seem fascist.
I do not insist that you do anything. I do insist that I find the term offensive and trivializing. Obviously for you to continue using it means that you don’t mind if I think you trivialize the Holocaust, opinions we are both perfectly entitled to hold. I fail to see why you don’t see the distinction.
how about “language facist”? That gets the message across without invoking any specific event.
pan
“Obviously for you to continue using it means that you don’t mind if I think you trivialize the Holocaust”
I mind whenever anybody makes an error concerning me.
I mind when somebody thinks that my use of a word implies an attitude which I do not share. Surely you see that there is a large amount of dissenting opinion from a variety of sources as to what that usage implies.
I mind the presumption that I should curtail my language in a public forum in order to accede to your (and pretty much only your) personal preference.
It is doubly presumptuous since you’ve failed to provide a succint alternative to “nazi” in this context.
Communication is difficult enough. I mind your attempt to lower the lower the efficiency of language by proscribing a useful term.
I mind your telling me what to do.
I mind the snide self-righteoussness that I see apparent by the simple fact that you’d attempt to correct me on a matter of personal preference.
Bad enough you hijack threads and inject your own narrow views, Scylla, but now you wish to slander people by affiliating them with the Nazi Party. What a shock that you refuse to take responsibility and instead hide behind that you can say anything you want to for effect.
You and tradesilicon have a special magic for saying whatever you want and flaming the hell out of those who disagree with you. You want to control language, but anyone else who has a gripe with phrases or words is a Nazi. What a massive control freak you are.
Why don’t you haul yourself from your self-imposed pedestal and take responsibility both for what you say and how you say it, you self righteous prig.
Hastur:
This may come as a bi of a surprise, but some of us truly had no idea that “gay lifestyle” had any negative connotation.
When somebody comes from out of the blue and posts a scathing attack against what seems to me to be an innocuous phrase and those who use it, and doesn’t explain, it gets my attention. I could very easily see myself using the phrase.
Now I’m not supposed to.
All I know is some arrogant guy who makes unfair and extreme generalizations about Republicans, likens these to use of the word “lifestyle.”
Since you didn’t explain. My basic reaction was “What The Fuck? There’s all kinds of lifestyles. What’s wrong with saying “gay lifestyle?” Why is he attacking Republicans? Why is he being such an asshole.”
Had you explained yourself with tact and patience, like JTR did at the end of your post you would have received sympathy, and compliance.
You call me a “Patronizing bastard” and insult my politics,
and now you are going to ask me a favor? “OOOOooo, the mean word hurts my feelings, it demeans me, don’t say it!”
Why should I comply or sow sympathy or that kind of attitude.
How stupid are you?
You do a lot more harm than good.
I’ll tell you something else: if Everybody thinks you are an asshole, pucker up.