So putting them in the exact same position they put me in is somehow unacceptable?
OK, so to summarize - you want to be accepted by and hang out with straight men, but you don’t want them to talk about things that straight men like to talk about unless you can also butt in with something they have no interest in talking about? Gee, sounds like a fun party. :rolleyes:
Treis said it well upthread - it’s impossible to socialize in a group setting without having topics come up that not everyone present is interested in, regardless of what the subject is. In the one-on-one scenario though I suppose I can understand the sentiment, but even then the graceful thing is to politely change the subject instead of intentionally bringing up something you know the other party finds distasteful to make some kind of point about a double standard.
The difference is they are them, and you are just you. In other words, if you’re the only one that cares about a subject, trying to turn a conversation to that isn’t typically how conversations should go.
No if said straight men are supposedly my friends they should know well enough that it is rude to force me to participate in a conversation I have no interest in. If they choose to put me in that position they aren’t very good friends and I will surely force them into the same type of conversation that they’d be uncomfortable with for the purpose of expressing how rude they are being.
I see there is more of them so I should be left the ostracized outlier rather then them being respectful of me in the first place.
You continue to make the OP’s point.
I’m sorry, was the OP’s point that a group of guys should act differently around their gay friend?
Who’s forcing you? And even if we were to accept that your first statement were true (that it’s rude for them to bring it up in your company at all - which I don’t agree with, but let’s say I did), the latter statement is a dick move any way you slice it. It’s moving from asking for acceptance of gays to shoving gay sex down people’s throats.
Well as you continue to miss the point I’ll spell it out for you.
People should be respectful of their friends.
And we’re back to the earlier standard, where friends should only talk about things that interest everyone present, and occasionally bringing up a subject that not everyone is interested in is rude. Which is completely ridiculous.
Right because that’s the only possible conclusion…
As the others in the thread have noted you’re hopeless. I’m not going to waste any more time with you.
Nah, he’s actually one of the more reasoned voices.
But it’s ok for them to shove straight sex down mine? (as you so delicately put it)
I came out 48 years ago, and I’m happy to live in a time and place in which people can make “good-natured jokes” about me. It wasn’t so long ago when the jokes were anything but good-natured and to my face. But obviously, even in today’s more liberal climate, gay people are still attacked, both physically and emotionally, and too often driven to suicide.
But there’s a fine line here. When I’m with close friends or family, gay or straight, there’s usually a small amount of good-natured banter, back and forth. I bring up their sexuality as well as my own, and they all do the same. And nobody is at all reluctant to hug anyone else (even the straight guys hug each other). We are comfortable with each other, and that’s one small way of expressing our comfort. Nobody in particular is at the receiving end more than anyone else, and to make a serious issue about it would be a detriment to our friendships.
But out in the “real world,” it’s a different matter. There are people who are overtly homophobic, and many others who have little currents of homophobia just beneath the surface. But it’s not my job to constantly monitor everyone’s attitude and attack or criticize every little offense by any given person. It has to depend on the context of the people and/or situation involved.
I’ll tell you one thing: There’s nothing worse than being in a group of straight guys and one of them is telling a gay joke, and they’re all pretending not to see whether I’m offended. Or they’re all trying to subtly remind the speaker that I’m within earshot. Makes me wonder what goes on when I’m not there.
But it all depends on context. There’s nobody I regularly socialize with who doesn’t know I’m gay. So yes, if they comment on a hot chick, it’s altogether possible that I’ll comment on her hot boyfriend. Maybe they’ll groan and roll their eyes a little, but at least we’re all comfortable with each other. And occasionally they’ll even ask me something like “Hey, see that hot chick over there? Do you think her boyfriend has a nice ass?”
Thing is, that one’s less likely to make someone gag.
(I had to.)
Oh, and to all you straight people, there are things ***you ***do that make ***us ***gag.
(not that there’s anything wrong with that)
Right, which is why if some people are going to talk about women they find attractive, it’s appropriate for me to talk about men I find attractive. Because it’s ridiculous to expect a conversation to only focus on subjects that are of unanimous interest.
(Do treis and Rigamarole begin every conversation with a gallup poll to ascertain which topics will meet with a majority of approval? One wonders how excited they’d be if they’re the only two that want to talk about hot women. What happens if it turns out they’re friends with a bisexual?)
This is an interesting take. When men discuss other women in front of me and other women (doesn’t happen often, but I can think of after-work happy hours in which it has), the conversation would go similarly, but the woman would merely comment on whether or not she thought the woman was beautiful or just hot because she was available / had big boobs (vs. the whole package) / etc.
Rigamarole
Not for a woman. I mean, you’re talking about straight oral sex, right? Maybe women don’t gag on yours, but some guys are, well…
Two things
-
attraction to someone is a common subject, just as taste in film is something in common. Using your logic if a group of people are discussing films and everyone says they like the Dark Knight and one person doesn’t like it then that person has nothing to say in the conversation because their view differs from the majority, even though it’s related to the topic. They can just as easily discuss their differing views on the Dark Knight without thinking the same thing. Or indeed one person can talk about a film they liked, the Dark Knight, and someone can talk about the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. I doubt in such a situation the Dark Knight fan would say “god man, stop shoving your interest in foreign crime dramas down my throat!”
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Do you only ever discuss topics where every person is uniformly interested in it? I routinely discuss things that, really, aren’t that interesting to me, but they are the person I’m talking to so I’m happy to listen and share in their experience. Hence why if a straight guy is talking about a woman he finds hot I can easily relate to it because I know what feeling attracted to a man is like, it’s the same just directed at a different gender. More importantly I’m able (and happy) to discuss something that he finds interesting and wants to talk about, I just ask that the same courtesy is extended to me and I don’t suddenly find myself talking to the hand and a grossed out face.
:eek:
And again for those at the back.
:eek:
That is actually your view? That discussing hypothetical attraction to someone of the same sex, or a relationship, is shoving gay sex down people’s throats? So in your world a conversation between two guys goes like this:
Gay man: So my boyfriend and I were out at dinner last night and we went to this great restaurant…
Straight man: Fuck man, enough! I don’t want to hear about two dudes having sex with each other!
Because that’s essentially what you’ve said in the examples you’ve given. If that’s what you think then, again, that’s completely fine, but you need to own your bigotry and stop pretending it’s anything other than that. However you can also stop worrying about whether this thread applies to you or not, because it’s supposed to be about how people who see gays as equals but don’t always follow through with their actions, and you clearly don’t see gays as equals at all so you’re firmly out of scope.
Or are you going to try and argue that you do see gays as equals, but you just don’t feel the need to treat them as if they are?
Expressing a negative opinion about the Dark Knight is still talking about the Dark Knight. The equivalent of “Johnny Depp is hot” in this conversation, is “Of Mice and Men is a good book!”. There’s nothing wrong with liking that book, but it just doesn’t fit in with a conversation about movies.
And it comes back to the same point. The conversation is about women they are attracted to, not people they are attracted to. It’s a conversation you can’t participate in because you don’t find any women attractive. Pointing out what men you find attractive isn’t adding to the conversation. It is starting a new one.
Yep - I’m done with this point with you too, clearly we live on different planets.