Are average guys literally incapable of discerning male attractiveness? That would make for a substantial difference from average girls. Girls (even totally-straight ones) know which girls are and aren’t pretty. Why wouldn’t guys be able to tell which guys are and aren’t handsome?
But that’s not what monstro said. By her definitions (which I agree with), “Christmas memories” would indeed be an offensive subject if the Jew wasn’t allowed to talk about childhood memories or holiday memories or memories of “Christmas as seen by someone who doesn’t have the religious part of that holiday but which is submerged in a culture that celebrates it”: it’s exclusive, it’s building a barrier and saying “you’re not allowed to participate in our conversation”.
Telling someone who’s in your group (not merely someone who happened to be in the same bus at the same time) “you’re not allowed to partake of this conversation” is offensive as all get-go.
I’ve known girls who claimed they couldn’t tell whether a woman was attractive or not. I’ve been filing them under “I for Insecure” since I was in Junior High.
Well, that was the point of my post. I am doubtful that many guys really can’t distinguish men at all on the basis of attractiveness, but at high school age, and perhaps for years afterwards for the less adult of them, some will make such a claim. I have always doubted them because it was never difficult for me to observe that some women were more conventionally attractive than others.
Straight woman here. Which of those is supposed to be even remotely bangable? I mean stuck on a desert island I’d choose the better personality but neither is my type.
How is that possible? Some people are just more… symmetrical. Taste is a factor but everyone has her type, even if she doesn’t want to sleep with another woman or even kiss her.
It is quite predictable how many people in this thread have twisted the words of the OP - into discussion of pornographic scenarios or hijacking of group chats - to make it seem like he wants to ‘shove gayness down people’s throats.’
Whatever it takes to justify your own homophobia.
I’m amazed (but not surprised) that there are people who will have a conversation only with other people who are just like them. That’s not a conversation; it’s masturbation.
Wow, there’s been some grade A trolling going on in this thread whilst I’ve been away! Stop chucking feed at it guys.
Let’s address this “who would men say are more attractive” point head on. I know exactly the phenomenon being described here, I’ve also seen a variation of it on the Dope where men state that other men - ALL other men, from the average Joe through to the underwear model - are so repugnant they can barely look at them. The “I just can’t tell who is more attractive, all men look the same to me” trope is part of the same thing, and it’s somewhat ridiculous when you hear it because it simply isn’t based on anything like biology and is purely a cultural artefact.
Look at it this way - women are quite capable of judging when a women is good looking, and likely to be attractive to others (generally men) because they do it all the time, and indeed this is recognised as something that can even become negative with competitiveness and jealousy being a product of it. So the female sex/gender is able to judge whether those of the same sex are attractive to others. That doesn’t mean they find them attractive, because that’s a whole other issue.
Gay men are able to say which women they think are more or less pretty/beautiful, and who they consider attractive to others. I know this because I’m capable of it, and I’ve talked to other gay men who are too. We’ve seen people in this thread saying they can. So as a male I’m able to judge the attractiveness of the sex/gender I don’t want to fuck, so it’s clearly nothing to do with sex.
Moreover I’ve had discussions with straight men where they say they can tell which men look better or worse by our culture’s standard of male beauty. So clearly neither the sex, gender or sexuality of males prevents them judging the potential attractiveness of their own sex.
So this leaves us with straight men who insist they can’t, as in it’s just not possible for them, judge the attractiveness of their own sex, stating it like some kind of disability akin to colour blindness. Given my points above I simply don’t believe that when I hear it, and I can only infer from that statement that someone doesn’t want to sound gay, or if not at the very least is trying to hold on to an identity that says men can’t do that.
This isn’t in and of itself an issue - if men want to deceive themselves then by all means go ahead. But coupled with my points in the OP and others in the thread about trying to create barriers or separation between themselves and gay men when something is being discussed that actually requires them to engage with someone’s homosexuality, even on the most peripheral level, then it becomes a problem. Hence why this discussion about sharing objects of sexual interest is a non-starter. It’s something that straight men are quite capable of doing, they just don’t want to, or maintain to themselves (for reasons I don’t really understand) that they can’t.
So, back to where we started - refusing to do this as a straight guy, when you claim to see gays as equals and you are pro-gay, just demonstrates you don’t and you’re not. If you think gay relationships are somehow different or inferior (**treis **certainly seems to think the former) then there isn’t much to discuss.
Count me as a chick who knows when a woman is pretty or beautiful, but would be lost if someone asked, “Is she hot?” Same with guys. I’ve recently discovered that “nice-looking” does not equal “hot”.
That’s why, when someone nudges me and points out a “hot” guy, I just nod and take their word for it. And then talk about something else. And really, even if I did genuinely agree that the guy was hot, I don’t know what else I’m expected to do. None of the “that’s not the point” people (treis or Rigamarole) actually fleshed this out.
I think the hotness as such has to do with fuckability. Since you don’t have sex, it’s understandable that you might not be tuned in to the “it” factor of fuckability. But you actually have a condition that makes this claim believable. The average guy does not.
You thicken your skin.
Ooh, somebody might interrupt your homoerotic bonding about Women Who Make Our Thingies Tingle by pointing out that the chick with huge bazongas dresses dreadfully. But her date is really fine…
That “somebody” could be a gay man or a woman. How many men out of their teens really spend their days standing on the corner watching all the girls go by? Why don’t they diversify their topics of conversation so they can do more than look at women?
Or y’all could just talk about sports…