There is, unfortunately, not a lot of detail thus far about the rebellion against the Mad King. As far as I can tell, the Starks and Baratheons joined forces to oppose the Mad King, Jaime Lannister, despite being a member of the Kingsguard, ended up killing the King himself, which may have simply been a way of saving his own skin when it became obvious that rebels were going to win. Ned Stark could have taken the Iron Throne himself, but declined it and Robert ended up being King. He was hopelessly in love with Lyanna Stark, but she was killed and Robert began a long career of drinking and whoring, despite being married to Cersei, who apparently thought he was dreamy up until she actually got married to him and, well, there wasn’t much of a honeymoon to speak of. Cersei had one son by Robert, which died, and became Jaime’s lover, and he sired all of her children, all of which are blond, which inexplicably raised red flags for absolutely no one for what, 17 years? Then came the death of Robert, aided by strong wine supplied to him by Lancel Lannister, probably at Cersei’s urging.
The thing is, if Robert had been faithful and sober, even if he never was able to get over Lyanna, wouldn’t Cersei have remained faithful to him, and we never would have gotten to this mess of a war(s) that’s going on now? Maybe Cersei would have still taken Jaime as a lover, who knows, but it was pretty much Robert’s incompetence and failure as both a husband and a king that brought this all on.
Is that a fair assessment? Or did Robert merely provide a convenient excuse for the Lannisters, Greyjoys, et al., to start warring for the throne?
I don’t remember Cersei ever had a child with Robert. I’m pretty sure she said she never slept with Robert, even when he wanted to. Basically she was going to be with Jaime regardless of how faithful Robert was. And she hated Robert and never wanted to be married to him.
She told Cat in season one that she had a dark-haired male baby that died.
she also told Robert during season one that at one point, before they got married, she was enamored of him.
She obviously slept with him, because Robert would absolutely not have put up with her having children that weren’t his, and if they’d never slept together I’m pretty sure he would have figure out they weren’t his kids pretty quickly, even if he was a little slow on the uptake.
As far as the OP, Dany would still be plotting to get her throne back, regardless of what Robert was doing.
Cersei mentioned in the second episode of the series that her first child, black-haired and all, died of fever as a little baby.
Also, Cersei and Jaime had been having their love affair since they were very young. Even if Robert had been ever the faithful husband, some of the royal children would’ve still no doubt ended up with golden hair. However, had he stayed loyal, there wouldn’t have been so many black-haired bastards around and no one would’ve figured out anything’s wrong.
But when Ned was confronting her about the whole thing, he asked her if she always hated Robert, and she said that she had “worshipped” him, that she and every girl in Westeros thought young Robert was all that an a bag of chips. It seemed like that all went down the tubes when Robert got drunk on their wedding night, could barely perform, and called out Lyanna’s name. Cersei said she “finished” Robert in “other ways,” which I assume would happen when Robert was too drunk to remember that he hadn’t finished normal coitus, so that Robert wouldn’t have reason to suspect that the kids weren’t his.
Still seems rather odd that no one happened to notice that all the kids were blonde, and wonder about the father…
I pretty sure she told Ned that whenever Robert wanted to actually sleep with her instead of a whore, she got him drunk enough that he couldn’t remember anything.
Of course she slept with Robert, and probably fairly often. If she didn’t, how would she explain to him that she was pregnant?
In season one, Cersei told Catelyn about a dark-haired child who died.
There’s a theory that Littlefinger started it all, by lying to Catelyn that Tyrion tried to kill Bran, causing Catelyn to kidnap Tyrion. It’s all so convoluted!
But yeah, if Robert had been a better husband, Cersei might not have slept with Jaime, at least after she was married. I don’t know if it’s in the books, but I assume they were unusually close growing up.
I got the impression that she wouldn’t have continued on with Jaime if Robert had been faithful and sober, but hey, I can’t gauge the strength of appeal that twincest has, so maybe she would have regardless.
And yeah, I almost forgot about Dany and all that. Except now, instead of a united Westeros waiting for her, there’ll likely be a disjointed group of cities, already weary and broken by war, waiting to become dragon chow.
And “Black-Haired Bastards” would be a good name for a rock band.
And the hair thing: apparently the jury’s still out as to how big a role recessive or dominant genes play, and it’s true that even the black-haired Robert could have sired a blonde child. I think it’s more that ALL of the kids were blonde that was something that would stick out.
In the second latest episode, after Jamie and Brienne arrived at Harrenhal, they had a discussion in the sauna/tub together. Jamie shared that the Mad King was obsessed with fire, and had ordered the head pyromancer to make shitloads of wildfire and store it around the city. Under the Sept of Baelor, under the Red Keep (castle), and even in Fleabottom (the slums with ordinary citizens). When Robert and Ned were heading toward the city, Tywin arrived first with his own forces and convinced the king to let him in to the city to help protect it. But then Tywin sacked the city because he wanted to be on the winning side of the war. So the Mad King ordered Jamie to kill Tywin, and told the pyromancer to burn the whole city and kill everyone in it. So Jamie killed the pyromancer, and then stabbed the king in the back as he was running away. And then slit his throat to make sure he was dead. Then Ned walks in and just assumes that Jamie was just a traitor and trying to end up on the winning side like Tywin did. I got the impression that Jamie probably wouldn’t have broken his oath and killed the king if he’d just been “mad” and not an attempting mass murder of civilians.
Thanks, Waenara. Unfortunately I do not have HBO so I have to wait for the seasons to come out on DVD to watch them. I heard that the Brienne/Jaime bathtub scene is great, can’t wait to see it!
As to Jaime, it also seems strange that being called the “kingslayer” should bother him so much, as it was pretty apparent that the King had to go for the good of the whole realm. You would think people would have called him a hero. Then again, the people of Westeros take oaths and honor WAY more seriously than most people do today, especially in the west. I suppose we’re so used to people in power breaking their promises in an almost casual manner that it seems alien that someone would take an oath THAT seriously.
The whole Westerosi culture is built around a very particular concept of honor. Jaime Lannister saved (tens of) thousands of civilian lives, a true act of heroism, but because of the oaths he had sworn this completely erased his honor in the eyes of the whole Westerosi society. If he wasn’t a child of Tywin Lannister he would’ve been absolute bottom rung of society.
This is also what caused Jaime to turn from a regular person into the embittered and immoral man he is today. Like the Hound, he sees the system for what it really is: a complete joke.
Well to be fair to Westerosi society and Ned, Jamie didn’t go out of his way to share exactly what the king had ordered. Brienne asked him why he didn’t tell Ned what happened as soon as he arrived, and Jamie was basically like “He didn’t have any right to judge me. Screw him.”. So while I’m now more sympathetic to Jamie, he could have done more to inform others of how he saved them all from a flaming horrible death.
Ned still wouldn’t have liked the oath breaking and king slaying. Maybe he would have said Jamie should have arrested the king? Still technically treason but not murder. But killing him also saved Ned and Robert from another dilemma. If the Mad King had been captured, could they have let him live? Keeping him alive would have been politically problematic. Maybe a trial and execution? But Targaryen loyalists could always say it was a show trial. Really, Jamie saved them a lot of trouble.
Human genetics on the unnamed planet that boasts Westeros (& the other continents) apparently is not identical to our Earth genetics. Ned (& John Arryn before him) read ancient genealogies & discovered that* all* Baratheon children had dark hair.
OK, I can buy that. After all, in the books everyone seems WAY young. I know they aged pretty much everyone for the TV series, but apparently they reckon years differently there, too. Or maybe 14 year-olds are matured to the level we usually see in high school seniors. I think the books described Ned Stark as 35 years old, too.
I think one of the themes of GoT is that EVERYBODY is responsible because everyone is a piece of shit. It doesn’t matter who’s in charge - it’ll still go to shit. Everyone from the Mad King onward has been terrible.
