Iraq’s Top Shiite Scholar Favors Civil Jihad
This doen’t fit too well with the administration’s claim that Iraqi resistance stems from “the last remnants of a dying cause”. (-Wolfowitz)
Indeed my friend. Please let me make it clear that I too believe that a total withdraw right now would be folly.
Maybe I need to be clear. What makes me upset is that our president has appeared to write this off and has continued down the path to re-election. He DID declare victory and then made little blurbs about the possibility of an extended campaign.
Let’s just say, for an example, he were to say the following to the American people:
“I want to enage you in a conflict that will take very little time to overthrow the military. But, we will entwine ourselves in a long, drawn out endeavour to NATION BUILD. This will cost the lives of countless American soldiers, who will be shot down by snipers and mutiliated by RPG’s. But, it is worth it, because Saddam MAY have weapons of mass destruction. He MAY pose a threat. I am not sure because there are no direct links to Al Qaeda. But, he has defied the UN and, although I ignored that when I took over as president, I think it is important now. In fact, I berated Al Gore in the debates about the importance of nation building and instead endorsed isolationism. But, now, although I use UN evidence to back my assertions I disavow myself with any connection to this organization because they do not wish to do what I want. We will act without their consent and attack this country. Your brothers, mothers, sisters and fathers will die.”
Do you think people would support him?
I don’t think so.
OTOH- Please do not diminish the deaths of our soldiers by saying they are “paid to kill”. This is true, but what disgusts me is that GWB calls victory, pockets the popularity and then pushes his political agenda. Just because we pay our soldiers to protect our nation does not mean they should be used to fulfill a political agenda.
The President should STILL be in the ready-room. We are at WAR. Call it a police action, call it nation-building, call it counter-insurgency, call it whatever you wish. It is war.
One poster asserted that the small number of attacks is indicative of a “few” minorities. I recall a time when ONE incident (anyone see the movie Black Hawk Down) motivated a nation to turn against the president for an attempt at “Nation Building”. Why now, when we have lost 4 times the number of soldiers (since the end of open hostilities), have we not witnessed a widespread “shock and awe”.
This is a guerilla war, make no mistake. If we stay in this conflict long enough to establish a nation (at least two years), we will lose hundreds, if not thousands. Maybe you can callously wipe away their lives, but I cannot. They deserve more than that. They deserve a president that recognizes the deaths occurring right now. They deserve a president who is thinking of this conflict constantly. They deserve a president who takes responsibility for the reality he has created.
They deserve a leader and if he does not have the strength to admit the realities openly, he becomes a coward.
I hope GWB will at least admit that there is a problem. That’s step one.
One down, eleven to go.
“My name is George, and I’m a power junkie…”
“HI, George!..”
Does anyone have a cite for the fifty+ casualties since “the gloat on the boat”? It’s not that I don’t believe it (honest), but I’ve had a hard time convincing others.
Thanks,
Pash
I actually saw the CNN story about 50, but here is a CNN story about 40+ since victory was declared.
Sorry, try this…
It will take one attack on a barracks not unlike what happened in Beruit two decades back to change the whole war around.
The big news these days here in India is about GWB ‘requesting’ the Indian government to deploy troops in northern Iraq as a policing/stabilising/security force, to replace American troops currently stationed there. The reasons being given, I must admit, do make sense, given the vast experience of the Indian Army in similar operations and the general affection Iraqis have for India.
And seeing how the entire world is all but bending over backwards not to displease GWB, about 20,000 Indian troops will be in northern Iraq in the coming months. So relax, many of your boy and girls are coming home.
[Belongs in Pit, but what the hell]
I hope GWB & Co. rot in hell…
[/Belongs in Pit, but what the hell]
I found the article I refer to published online
Umm…would you mind translating the relevant portions Aldebaran?
Well in short it handles about Iraqi men who entered a park where some confiscated rifles and other weaponery was stored.
The version of the US soldiers is they were out on stealing.
Thus they stripped them, burned their cloths, and they were driven through the parks and through some streets of the neigbourhood. Naked, with an attempt to write in Arabic the words “Ali Baba Haram” = “Ali baba, forbidden” on their bodies.
When quesitoned the leading officer said this was going to be the threathment they plann to give to "thieves.
Further the soldier commented that the population themselves “asked” for this treatment.
(I can tell you that this is a lie. This is such a shocking unthinkable barbaric thing to do in a Muslim country that no one would even come to the idea. Ther wer even women watching the whole humilating barbarism those men had to underog)
One of the men said outraged that he was not a thief, that they humilated him and the others like animals and that he now planned to steal all the weapons he could get to kill every American that came in sight.
That is in short what it is about.
Salaam.
Aldebaran.
Fairly biased and selective “translation” by Aldebaran there, but that’s par for the course based on his posting history.
I’ll be happy to translate the full article if anyone’s interested.
There is no “biased” translation involved wht so ever.
AZnd since I gafe o short summary, it is of course “selective” which is inherent on making a summary.
And giving my comments clearly indicating it is my personal comment, is not being “biased” or “selective” but is telling what most likely the truth is.
There is no interview with the local population to refute the comment of that soldier that they “asked” for this barbarism.
Thus I give the comment you can expect those people would make on such ridiculous assumption.
But of course… How silly of me… You are the one here who is informed about that country, the region, Islam and its laws and societies…
Sorry, forgot.
Ah, I forget something : Now that you have profiled yourself as the great specialist in Iraq, the Middle East, Islam and Islamic societies, you surely can include in your translation what is wrong with the “Arabic” those soldiers wrote on those men’s bodies.
Surprise me. We can write further in Arabic then a form our own little secret childish group.
Please do. If you’re willing and all. It would be helpful if the relevant details were available so I could look for the story in an english language press.
thanX Petter
AldebaranI think you’re mistaking Great Debates with the Pit.
I’d be more than happy to defer to your expertise in this area, if you would post your credentials and stop falsely representing my motives.
Never mind Petter.
I found a copy of The Daily Mirror’s story @ the Memory Hole
Fairly biased and selective “translation” by Aldebaran there, but that’s par for the course based on his posting history.*
That is your comment, isn’t it?
You make a comment that has no other purpose then bring the childish attempts to attack me on that other board overhere.
And what are you asking for exactly, that I scan and post my diplomes?
I’m sorry but you must be a little bit out of your mind.
Salaam.
Aldebaran.