Simon,
There isn’t “written” in “arabic”
Ali baba Thief,
But: Ali Baba haram,
Which means: forbidden.
I didn’t read the rest of the article. If they even bring that little detail wrong and twisted, I wouldn’t trust the rest if I were you.
I’m sure you can find a better one whe you do a Google surch.
Salaam.
Aldebaran
ThanX for correcting a non-material error. You can Google one up that meets your standards if you like.
The contribution that the incident had to make to this thread has been sufficiently made.
Time for new stuff.
It’s not polished in any way, but it does closely follow the original text.
Headline: We took the clothes and burned them before we threw them out with ‘thief’ written on the chest.
Subheadline: American forces in Iraq are using a new way to punish Iraqi thieves worse than the gallows. They’re being thrown naked into the streets with ‘thief’ written on the chest.
Article: It’s 7:55 Iraq time. We see four young naked men in the Zawra park. In front and behind are for american soldiers. The somewhat unusual group slowly moves towards a building. Minutes after the naked Iraqis are pushed into the street by the Americans. “Ali Baba, Ali Baba” the Americans shout after the four people who run as fast as they can to hide.
Ali Baba is used by all Iraqis in the looted Bagdad these days. The name refers to the story of Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves. The Iraqis see Ali Baba as the … because he stole the loot from other thieves.
The worst Humiliation.
Dagbladet(the paper reporting this) runs after the fout naked Iraqis. Three of them run away, but 20-year old Zian Djumma comes back with his head down after he’s put on pair of worn, grey shorts he found in a looted house. To send a naked Iraqi into the street is one of the most humiliating things one can do.
On his naked chest we see the following words written in Arabic with black marker: Ali Baba. Haram. Haram means thief, forbidden and tabu in Arabic. It was the Americans who wrote the words on Zian Djumma’s chest.
About to steal?
According to the 20-year old the four friends went into the park through an open gate. “We were looking for our 15-year old younger borther who has been gone for three days” is Zian Djumma story.
Our Iraqi companion, Fadil Fawas doubts the 20-year old’s word. “He doesn’t seem sad enough” he says.
American soldiers have been posted in the park for more than a week and patrol the area. A lot indicates that the group visited the park to see if there was anything to steal.
The Americans who carried out the operation said the four Iraqis were carrying a plasticbag of weapon parts.
“That’s a lie. We had nothing”, says Ziad Djumma who comes from the poor part of the city named Sadr city, formerly known as Saddam city.
Not too harsh
Djumma tells us he’s angry because the soldiers also burned their walletes with money and indentification papers. On the pictures Dagbladet has taken however, we see that they have their wallets with them.
“We took everything out of their pockets and gave back watches, cigarettes, lighters, pocket books and money” the squadleader lieutenant Eric Canaday (25) tells Dagbladet.
He was responsible for the unorthodox operation in Bagdad park yesterday.
-Do you have the authority to burn thieves clothes and send them naked into the street?
According to the Americans many weapons are stored in Zawra park. The weapons are to be returned to the Iraqi government when they resume control of the country.
Many houndreds of Iraqis have attempted to enter the park lately to steal the weapons. Canaday’s squad had patrolled day and night, to no avail.
We’ve talked to Iraqi citizens. Some of them gave us the idea. So we took the clothes and burned them, before we pushed them out with Thief written on the chest. It was actually quite successfull, says squadleade Canaday.
We’ve only done it once before. It was only one person them. says the squadleader-
Will you continue with this method?
Yes, he says.
Shouldn’t happen.
A few hundred yards away, by the grave of the unknown soldier, ensign Daniel Cummings (26) and the American third infantry division are located. Troop command Cummings haven’t heard about the four Iraqis who were undressed by his fellow soldiers an hour earlier.
I can’t say anything about why soldiers are burning clothes because I didn’t see it and we haven’t been ordered to do it.
We are strictly forbidden to treat prisoners inhumanely or to humiliate them in any way. I’m very upset to hear that you’ve seen this. I can tell you I would never let my troops do anything like that. It’s bad for dicipline and shouldn’t happen, says Cummings.
Phew!
I’ll compare and contrast with Aldebaran if there’s any point to it (after my fingers stop smoking, anyway)
And on preview … NEVERMIND?
Dammit. :smack:
It’s a comment based on your entire posting history. That means every post you’ve ever made anywhere on SDMB.
Please learn how to use the quote button.
No, I’m asking you to tell me what education you have that is relevant to this discussion. You’re more than welcome to scan your diplomas if you want.
ThanX all the same Petter.
Umm… about the guerilla warfare that’s being conducted against US troops…
I’d say that since it’s organized and people are dying because of it that the hostilities in Iraq are not over.
***No, I’m asking you to tell me what education you have that is relevant to this discussion. You’re more than welcome to scan your diplomas if you want.
Oh, I’m o sorry professor… Tell me: what is your education that makes you the specialist of Iraq?
Znd thank you so much that “I’m more then welcome to scan my diplomes if I want”
But you see: This website isn’t your property for as far as I’m able to deduce at the moment. So I conclude that you have no one thing to say who posts heer and who doesn’t and not one thing to “demand” of people to “prove” to Petter the member of this forum that he is “capable” to participate at any discussion what so ever.
This leads to the fact that you sadly enough must accept: Namely that I have really no need for your permission to post or introduce here whatever I want to post or introduce here.
Is that clear enough or do you need a drawing.
Petter, forgot to say: you really have no clue of what ’ a short summary" means, do you?
For a professor that is very strange.
Yeah, I think that organization and the use of fatal force in the name of a country, (even if only ostensibly), constitutes warfare. I think that the war hasn’t truly ended in Iraq yet.
What about you guys?
Aldebaran,
I think we’ve hijacked this discussion enough.
See me in the Pit if you wish to continue your disjointed arguments.
Petter, for you information: you started to transfer your ridiculous attacks on me from overthere into this discussion.
By the way: I really feel no need to “see” you anywhere.
I’m sure you have a lot of regrets, I’m so sorry.
Simon,
In my opinion: What you see now is only a start. The longer the Americans stay there, the more the people will feel colonized and the more they will be inclined to listen to religious and other leaders to drive the Americans and other foreigners out.
By all means possible.
Salaam.
Aldebaran
I’d be very surprised if we were liked more the longer we stay there. It seems a truly evil and tense situation for all involved. I look at the faces of the soldiers who are our emissaries over there and most of what I see are kids in their early to mid-twenties. The weight of the responsibility on them is surely more than they can be aware of. I expect that there are someover there who have an understanding of there place in history and the ramifications of their daily actions.
I’m still not clear as to what good is coming to Americans from the whole affair. I don’t understand how this is worth it. We’re stuck with a difficult and expensive venture for what seems to be at least years. When it’s all over, I doubt that anyone will offer thanks for the good that does come of it. I’m afraid that the ill-will, if not the mere accumulation of detriments, will outwiegh the benefits to the Iraqis and the rest of the world.
I am glad that Hussein is no longer in power though. I doubt if very many people, if anyone, shed a tear for his passing.
The article about humiliating Iraqi men is indicative of the sort of things that can happen during a guerilla war and occupation. The likelihood of an American soldier committing an act that is culturally offensive is much higher. This is not to even mention the time that may come when U.S. soldiers get scared, frustrated or angry and accidentally(or intentionally) kill civilians.
I just saw how CNN was going to have a special about the War in Iraq. They were speaking in the past tense. Whatever happened to good journalism? This is when we need journalists in the country covering stories. Not some embedded lackey who reports only what they are told.
I have also noted that no one has asserted that the war is over. Not even the Bush supporters/war supporters. Why then is there not more outcry on this issue in the public?
Is it because everyone is still afraid of being called unpatriotic for speaking out?
Maybe doublespeak has become unconsciously normal.
We fight wars that aren’t wars and they end before they are over because they don’t end because they aren’t wars but we’re fighting. The fighting is over.
You KNOW all of this ^ is true.
Who said cognitive dissonance had to hurt?
Ouch!
Forget about IRAQ, the US has barely finished the first phase of the war in AFGHANISTAN yet how often do we hear about THAT in the media? From what I have been able to glean, the US have a shaky grip on Kandahar, the rest of the country seems to be controlled by local war lords and the Al Q are starting to regroup again in the north. Hamid Karhzai is being made impotent by all the ruling factions and yet the media has become alarmingly quiet about the entire situation.
In 2001, 56,666 law enforcement officers were assulted in America. Of those, 16,202 were injured, of those, 234 were killed.
Is there a guerilla war going on in America as well? And why isn’t the press talking about? Is it fear of being called unpatriotic!?:eek:
Aldebaran, you’ll find people will be a lot more receptive to your thoughts and theories if you don’t present them in such a confrontational manner. There is absolutely no need for your snarky attitude towards posters like Petter. Whatever needs to be discussed in the Pit, goes there and there alone. In this forum, you will behave properly, or you will be shown the door.