Guys and Prostitutes ...

“You’re right - I give out sex for love and companionship.”

Love is an undefined term - without a precise definition before-hand, it is a disingenuous means to control people through lack of transparency.

Companionship is implied in the act of sex; this is meaningless.
“I give out sex to someone I want to spend a long time with.”

Maybe you do, I don’t encounter women who aknowledge males with sex for the purpose of consecrating friendship, or at a bare minimum, the expressed communication for desire of friendship.

“I have friends who give out sex in order to procure an enjoyable night after clubbing.”

Hmm… yes, how exactly does one enjoy a night of music turned up so loud only the biggest moron gains attention? Is this supposed to turn guys on?

“Men don’t give out sex for free either, by that sort of rationale.”

Men give out sex on things implicit and logically consistant; women do so counter-intelligently and covertly. A guy would be much more likely to have sex with some cripple next door for just being mildly friendly - women demand much more resource than men for sex. The nature of the resource itself has no bearing on the depth proclaimed by women of it!

-Justhink

Justhink, I do define it beforehand. I define every major ‘need’ I am going to have before I sleep with anyone so that noone is surprised. A car is not one of those things. A monogamous and commited relationship is.

Companionship is NOT implied in the act of sex. A companion requires more than someone moaning in your ear and leaving you in the wet spot - at least, for most of us.

As for ‘how exactly does one enjoy a night of…’ that’s a damn good question, and one of the reasons I’m not much of a clubber - but I know plenty of folks who get laid after such events, so I’m guessing that someone, somewhere gets something out of it. Pleasure, perhaps!

A coworker looking over my shoulder seems to think that perhaps you’ve never been in love. And likely never had sex with a good woman. But I digress :slight_smile: I do, however, think your responses are needlessly wordy and pedantic and that you’re far from making your point with them. Not everyone is going to fit your definitions.

““Justhink, I do define it beforehand. I define every major ‘need’ I am going to have before I sleep with anyone so that noone is surprised.””

That sounds like a LOT of game just to get there.

““A car is not one of those things. A monogamous and commited relationship is.””

Good for you, this however is not a commitment any reasonable male would make (and you happen to be a large majority in terms of women on this point). If the male is 15, this promise is pointless; if they never disingenuously conceed to this rediculous promise, they will most likely not recieve sex unless they fork over cold hard cash for it; the years do go by…

Next thing you know; you’re a 30 year old honest male who hasn’t been laid (just because they had the integrity and wisdom to reailze that this promise is not practical from a young age, and consiquently (having had no experience) in which to judge, even more illogical at older ages. The guys mentioned above won’t even make it through your radar in the first place to recieve the altimatum; so it’s not particularly relevant (one does generally seek to find someone stupid enough to asnwer in the positive a demand that they make on a persons entire life.).

""Companionship is NOT implied in the act of sex. A companion requires more than someone moaning in your ear and leaving you in the wet spot - at least, for most of us. “”

Companion has a pretty neutral connotation; as in: someone or multiple someones in proximity. I have “company” over doesn’t even suggest you particularly like them, nor does the sentiment that you have someone to keep you company… it connotates YOUR need or feelings of obligation, more than their need or sense of duty.

“”“but I know plenty of folks who get laid after such events, so I’m guessing that someone, somewhere gets something out of it. Pleasure, perhaps!”""

Drugs, peak experiences burned in the brain from drug use, logical consistancy malfunction resultant from drug use…
If you use drugs or deal drugs, this entire situation becomes wholly different - you’ll recieve quite a bit of sex just from being a drug user.

Non-drugged dancing? The environment is so professional that those who don’t already have life-partners are at least ‘commitedly dating someone’; or probably sociopathic (as in singles folk dancing etc…)

““A coworker looking over my shoulder seems to think that perhaps you’ve never been in love. And likely never had sex with a good woman. But I digress I do, however, think your responses are needlessly wordy and pedantic and that you’re far from making your point with them. Not everyone is going to fit your definitions.””

I believe in less efficient, more efficient
less consistant, more consistant

My experience in life, without fail, is that more efficient always equals less consistant. I always default to: more consistant.
Consistancy defined from the axiom: “It is more logical to commit suicide than to:”

Often the answer that pops in my head in regards to women is:

It is more logical to commit suicide, than to simulate a behavior that they would appreciate; even if it were the behavior you might engage in, were your intent of sex not a consideration.
However, since your intent is in consideration!; one must weigh the thought that the act is not consentual on the womans behalf, should it come to arise (even though with a higher cognitive age, they might appreciate the manipulation of their indentured system to force action against their current will. Ultimately though, it is arrogant and presumtuous to risk that a woman might agree with your opinion of “what they will appreciate when they become older”.) The first way, is to aquire their definitions of terms and determine their cognitive age (the transparent act of which totally negates the resource virtually all women require for sex). The way one observes this is by comparing their smiles and laughter against words and phrases from others or themselves, that require suicide logically to preceed speaking them. If they appreciate these types of corruptions of logic with lightheartedness, and thus proceed to engage with them, then it has become evident that they possess an exceptionally young cognition. Thus, the entire basis for implicit trust has been divided through a non-peer territory; and the advantage is a perverse pedefilia akin to the negation of ones very existence.

“Love” is player language; it ultimately creates non-transparency, and trust violation. The word means nothing; either spoken against or spoken for. It is like calling an atheist a religous person for saying God doesn’t exist. Words like attatchment (axioms and conditions must be provided), momentary appreciation (axioms and conditions must be provided) – make sense to me shrug.

I’m not the only nice guy who doesn’t get any…
I can’t assert this enough on behalf of ‘nice’ guys… every thing that males are using to achieve sexual reward are weapons clearly laying upon the floor, to which nice guys predict their pick up with astonishing accuracy, and will not pick up themselves.
It’s not a matter of ability once sex occurs (something worthy of being judged upon for the sake of sex itself); but rather ones ability to completely massacre other human beings, based on a lack of knowledge they possess; in which to force the sexual situation in the first place. Females are horrendously infamous for choosing the person who has determined through their words and actions; that they are least deserving of the life they have - for all acts given to them are from illusion.

Back to the OP - sooooo… it’s quite reaonable that guys choose prostitutes =)

-Justhink

Try reading Sydney Biddle Barrows’s book, Mayflower Madam. I found it fascinating. She did lots of research about the escort industry before opening her own service.

Alright. I have to admit I had to read that at least 4 times to see your meaning (and my vocabulary is far from lacking sir) but I do see what you are getting at now. Unfortunately - I do wish you could see things differently. Love is quite a bit more than a meaningless word for me :wink: and covers a myriad of other terms, including attachment and momentary appreciation (doesn’t his ass look nice today? Yes indeed.)

I try for the middle field of partial efficiency and partial consistancy.

I also will not argue that ‘nice guys’ are more or less sexually appealing than men with overt confidence - but sex is not always the first word in human interaction (is it?)

I’ll stop hijacking as well. See the point of prostitution, think it should be legalized, would leave my husband if he availed himself of one. Simple :slight_smile:

wrapping up an aknowledged thread steal

““Unfortunately - I do wish you could see things differently.””

I agree, that is unfortunate! Passion for truth and virtue doesn’t work that way however =)

“”"“Love is quite a bit more than a meaningless word for me and covers a myriad of other terms, including attachment and momentary appreciation (doesn’t his ass look nice today? Yes indeed.)”""""

“”"“I try for the middle field of partial efficiency and partial consistancy.”""""

Unacceptable. =)

““I also will not argue that ‘nice guys’ are more or less sexually appealing than men with overt confidence - but sex is not always the first word in human interaction (is it?)””"

I know immediately if I am physicaly and/or experientailly attracted to a woman; since sex is a possible logical outcome; one must prepare in advance to assure that it was consentual - otherwise they would be required to commit suicide from the pedophilia.

In America, this is virtually impossible without being a wall-flower; primarily because of the immense distribution of life-long low cognitive ages here.

““I’ll stop hijacking as well. See the point of prostitution, think it should be legalized, would leave my husband if he availed himself of one. Simple””"

Guys take note^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is how women are; hypocrites. Granted, he did marry you (what if you divorced though? what if you stopped ‘giving to him’? – again, women don’t think things through)

To address you a bit more in precise terms of the OP.

You have the luxury to feel all goodie, goodie about learning these things AFTER you’ve sown your wild oats and settled down.
I’m sure you massacred many males and females needlessly in the process to do so as well; as most likely is the case of your hubby. I wouldn’t be suprized if you managed to murder quite a few people along the way; or at least spiral them into a drug induced depressive stupor for life; but then, only ignorance can claim sincerity and innocence right?

Women fundamentally select sincerity for sexual reward. They do so through meduims of gossip, story telling, critisism and teasing:: all violations of trust; and logically inconsistant forms of commuication. Sincerity is shallow and cheap to simulate for the female radar (since they ARE looking for it (something proven over-decades) they will only spot those who by exhibiting it do not actually possess it.) Women do not however (inspite of their protests to the contrary) reward or re-enforce virtue on behalf of males with sexual reward (which degredates the societal progress of this). Just because they like a guy enough to hang out with them and talk to them; has NO bearing on sex. With guys in general, it’s very much different, guys will reward any old little thing with sex… doesn’t have to be much at all, just something that piqued interest if only for a moment; with that, sex is a logical reward as re-enforcement of reality itself engaging you; almost a means of sanctifying what is good, and encouraging more of it. Women don’t think this way (They start to at around 40ish, and can begin to cocieve it on their death beds in general), and as a result virtue gets flushed down into the abyss of turmoil and suffering.

Since women have no particularly logical function in society, it stands to reason that one must pay for sex, who is virtuous (unless your existential vacuum is being sealed by monogamy, or psychological veil)
In this scenario the consent issue around pedifelia and rape are non-issues because the commidy is not a persons life-long soul, but rather a brief monetary exchange of workload (to which either person can spend how they want, regardless of cognitive age).

-Justhink

Somewhere out there, perhaps 4.13 billion light years thataway, lies a planet where the bodyshapes are virtually identical and cultural norms are fairly close to our own, save for a mirror-image inversion of generalized sex roles in courting, flirting, getting hooked up, etc.

I’m male. Give me a one-way ticket and I’m there tomorrow.

I’m totally jealous of you female folks. If I didn’t tend to like you so much I could really hate you.

You there, you gay guy checking out the thread. I’m jealous of you too. At least you can have reasonable hopes of being lusted after as strongly as you lust, by the very ones you lust after. Mutual. You folks are generally pretty cool overall, but I could sure hate you too.

::sigh:: Only jarbaby gives us hope. … :slight_smile:

Originally posted by Justhink

I resent this little gem as a human being, as a woman, and as what, I suspect, Justhink would describe as a “cripple”.

That is all.

:rolleyes:

JustThink- Hi! Your first time on the planet? :rolleyes:

Now for the whores! Yes, I think prostitution should be legalized. In a capitalist economy, all things can be considered tradeable commodities. We have already commercialized sex to the extent where it is used to sell nearly everything but sex. It seems almost a moralistic cop-out to keep it illegal.

It’s interesting to note the situation in places like Bangkok- any emotional connections the sexual may have had have been comlpetely disconnected. In this situation, it seems, at least from Karellen’s post, that legalizing prostitution could actually help to prevent some violent crime, at least in certain situations.

I also think legalizing prostitution could go aways towards cultivating a more mature attitude toward sex in our society. If we could psychologically and culturally seperate the act itself from the act as part of a committed emotional relationship, we may finally be able to get over our (IMO) weird and unhealthy obsession with sex itself.

On to the hijack: If you simply must view a relationship as some sort of business transaction, then why does sex and/or material goods have to be the only medium of exchange? Couldn’t mutual support and empathy, compassion, trust, fellow-feeling, and simple human interaction be a part of the trade equation? Why must sex be the only currency in this business view of relationships? This is overly simplistic, and it ignores the basic human need for companionship- not every relationship is about sex, or how to get it, and what you must sacrifice to keep getting it. I thnk anyone who thinks this way needs to seriously re-evaluate their priorities.

Arguably these things are already legally tradeable commodities. You can purchase the services of a counsellor or therapist. Most people who call up sex phone lines just want to talk (or so I’m told.) Non-sexual companionship can be bought in the form of pets. And any Hollywood agent will tell you that 90% of his/her job is “support, empathy, compassion, trust” plus ego-stroking and ass-kissing.

Indeed, why isolate sex?

(And I’m with you regarding Justhink–I just didn’t want to say anything snarky in an otherwise “polite” thread. ):stuck_out_tongue:

Curiouser and curiouser.
Karellen, the comment re: folks calling sex lines for conversation really does not surprise me - we at 24-7 technical support centers do have people call just to talk. Old ladies, guys in their 40s, lots of people. Stoners in the middle of the night (got to be the most amusing ones) Give them our number, we’ll save em some money :wink:

As I did say - sex is not always the first word in human interaction (glad to see at least SOMEONE agrees with me)

Funny that Justhink would call me a hypocrite for something that I point out as an unconditional requirement at the beginning of a relationship. A ‘hypocrite’ says one thing and does another. Maybe he needs a dictionary?

Suffah.

So wait, are you saying that women don’t or can’t “lust” as strongly as men do? That’s going to be quite a shock to some of the lusty women I know.

BTW, gay guys sometimes pay for sex too…

Oh for the love of… what are you 15 … 16 years old maybe?

Look Justhink (the irony of your user name is almost more than I can bear), while this awkward, qlurging little tarantella of yours on the ontology of “playerhood”, might play well to the folks at home you really need to drop the pose for the SDMB audience. You are making an absurd spectacle of yourself with this adolescent posturing and tortured, Critical Theory of gettin’ some, prose.

You are an intelligent young man and you should be able to express yourself with clear, declarative sentences and arguments free of useless jargon.

Coldfire, - WOW, Ms. Hollender, I havn’t thought of her in years. I used to read her books. Tough way to go through puberty. You tend to think all women do what she did. Oh well. How old is she now?

OK, time to weigh in…

Sex is a form of currency to some people. So, to some people, are things like praise, respect, loyalty, friendliness, supportiveness, even physical proximity…

There’s nothing wrong with running a balance sheet on every aspect of your life. From time to time, most of us audit our friendships and ask ourselves whether we’re being screwed. That’s fine too, so long as we’re not pinching pennies.

By that logic, there’s very little wrong with prostitution. Socially it’s more acceptable to trade emotional currency for emotional currency (and I think of sex as falling into this category, as that’s where most of our upbringings put it), but if someone wants to put a cash value on it that’s fine too: they’re not demanding much emotionally or socially from the client.

That being said, I think it’s got to be the most dissatisfying, soul-reducing way of having sex imaginable. I’ve been in sexual relationships which were devoid of emotional content whatsoever (So much for lustless women, Justhink, the person I’m thinking of knew that the relationship was loveless and just felt like sleeping with me… cooked me dinner when I visited too :smiley: ) and frankly although they’re fun, they get mind-numbing pretty quickly.

Now. Then. Far be it for me to flame, troll, or be otherwise unkind. Far be it for me to encourage Astro’s often slightly caustic bluntness. However, it seems that I’m not the only one who got a migraine trying to read certain pretentious, cryptic, syntax-free posts on this thread. What I did understand of those posts came across to me as misogynistic and baseless, not to mention arrogantly childish in the extreme. How the hell did you get so bitter without learning how to write a simple sentence???

I think overcoming your bitterness would be the first step on a long-ish road to maybe finding a woman who will tolerate your pedantic self-righteousness. This society is not run by people who work against intelligence, but as someone who learned about his intelligence level at an early age I recommend not flaunting it as the best demonstration of intelligence you could ever achieve.

As for your continual citations of “logic,” I have yet to see those declaritive sentences that Astro mentioned which are a fundament of logic. Write your posts out so an idiot could understand them, maybe in the process you’ll see all the logical fallacies you’ve committed (if not I’ll be happy to show you where you went wrong, should you ask). I find it truly unsettling that you post at such great length, and with such confidence, yet the views expressed withing are so horribly misguided…

(just because I know I’m going to get my wrist slapped for this, doesn’t mean I won’t post it… I already censored it a bit… sorry in advance, Coldfire )

Women still think like that?! How on Earth did they manage to get married then?

This article appeared in yesterday’s Washington Post, about a so-called “John School” for men caught with prostitutes. Interesting read. The women involved in the class are cynical enough to believe that all men will seek a prostitute because of whatever they’re not getting at home.

My mother once told me she had a professor (married by the way) who hit on her unsuccessfully, then told her, “Women like you are the worst kind of whores. You think a piece of your ass is worth the rest of a man’s life.” Attitude sound familiar to anyone?

As regards men always paying for sex one way or another, I have sex because I WANT to, and there’s nothing anyone could do, say, or buy to persuade if I wasn’t already so inclined.

Firstly, let me draw your attention to this. I can’t believe no-one brought this up yet.

And now justhink, what the hell does;

“Since women have no particularly logical function in society,”

mean except that from here on in whatever you say will mean very little to myself or anyone? The comment was ignorant and insulting at the very least, would you please clarify or at least apologize for this statement?

Now… I believe in prostitution in that, I know it exists. I see the women in our city’s red light district fairly often, walking the streets, standing on corners, waiting for their next client to drive up. I also happen to find the multi-billion worldwide industry of prostitution degrading, disgusting, and exploitive of men, women, and too often children.

Women do have a logical place in our society; I am married to one who happens to bring immeasurable joy into my life, we also have four children who bring more of that unquantifiable joy. Sex (for us) is a product of the deep and committed relationship we share and only a small part of who we are and what we mean to each other.

In my youth I regarded the guys who would brag about their sexual conquests as insecure and ill mannered louts, I still do.

Perhaps this is because I like most women and consider them to be human beings, deserving of the same rights and freedom of abuse and exploitation that I do. We can cite cases of self employed, high priced call girls but they are not the norm. Most prostitutes are victims and continue to be victims of abuse, abuse being where another person or thing (ie. drugs) has power over them and compells them to sell the only thing they think they have of value, their bodies.

Is this something anyone would want to brag about?

First I’ll confess that I haven’t bothered to read through this entire thread, especially the majority of the ironically-named Just-think’s posts, still, I feel compelled to offer a theory or two:

Justhink, still in high school and still hoping to lose his virginity, just got rejected a couple months ago when he finally made his first pass at a girl he’s been attracted to for quite some time. In the time since then, he’s been reading a lot of contemporary philosophy and far-out websites;

there is no consensus among men about why they use/do not use prostitutes;

there is no consensus among men or women about how they view sex, whether it’s an end-product, a means, a symbol, an instinctual urge, a commodity, an intimate form of expression, etc.;

not much is going to be resolved by this thread.