I’m not sure how either love or respecting her feelings can be fucked; I’m unaware of either of those possessing the requisite apertures. 
Anyway – since Mary didn’t say no, explicitly said she wants to say yes (and implicitly did not do so out of concern for Don’s feelings), how would renewing the proposal be disrepectful of her feelings?
“I want to say yes” = “no.” Do some of you guys speak chick euphemism at all, or do you believe them when they say stuff like, “I like you but…?”
I am not backloading the hypothetical. I have not added any new information (beyond clarifying what I thought was obvious–that a couple who’ve been dating exclusively for a year has made the beast with two backs.) I have pointed out why I think Mary’s words are ambiguous.
For the record, since the hypothetical specifically asks what the best friends (Dave & Jenny) should advise Don to do when he asks, I’ll say that in their place I’d tell him not to renew the proposal right away, if ever. I just don’t think the case for her not loving him is supported by the text.
And with that I’m off to do interviews. Ciao, all!
Mr. Cynic, those two replies seem to contradict each other. You might be able to explain why they absolutely, totally, completely do not… but my eyes are ready to roll.
Her feelings as written:
I just can’t say those words you just said to me. I don’t think I’m capable of saying that or feeling that. I’ll say yes if you want me to, but I need to know first that you’re okay with that reality.
She says she will willing marry the guy. I trust her to know her own mind and situation and make the decision that is right for her.
Another comment: In every SDMB thread about the difference between male and female communication there are MANY posts from guys begging for women to just say what they mean. (And MANY responses from women claiming that they understand that complaint, but they personally are honest, direct and don’t expect mind reading from men.)
Mary seems like the kind of honest but caring person those posters would love to know.
My example involved taking her at her word, not trying to spin it.
Trusting her has nothing to do with anything. The problem is that she is making it clear she would rather NOT get married. It’s respecting her feelings that what matters, not “trusting” her.
All the more reason not to badger her into a marriage she clearly would not choose if not asked.
Dio, my feelings are that very few women will marry someone they don’t want to marry (even someone they like) merely because that person asks them twice over the course of two days.
If you doubt my accuracy on that, it could be set up as a IMHO poll.
I think it is much more likely that a woman will willingly marry someone they like and care about even if that person doesn’t cause them to feel “love.”
Some people never experience the emotion they (abstractly) think of as “love.” Should those people never marry?
I really think you’re giving Mary no credit for knowing her own mind and situation.
You’re not asking me, but I don’t think those people should marry. I think one of the reasons divorces are so prevalent is that people want to get married without thinking it all the way through. In lots of cases, they’ll find that just being friendly with someone isn’t enough to build a marriage on.
Now, there are undoubtedly exceptions, but I know I wouldn’t want to be the person they experiment on to find out if they can have a happy marriage without love. And I can’t understand why anyone who’s really thinking it through would settle for someone who is just generically nice to them rather than having someone who cherishes them.
It seems to me, if a person tells you that they don’t love you, you should believe them. Trying to figure out exactly why someone doesn’t love you is insane. It doesn’t matter why they don’t love you. They just don’t.
They’re having sex and care deeply about each other. “Love” is just a word.
A lot of broken marriages have resulted from people marrying because they were just so darn crazy in love. My guess is that’s a larger cause of matrimonial failure than couples getting married who like each other and are having (presumably) decent sex, but one member doesn’t feel “love.”
Again: “love” is just a word.
They’re sleeping together, and the women spends days in hospital watching over the unconscious man. The woman seems to be an honest, thoughtful, precise communicator entirely willing to enter into matrimony.
I’m already married, but jeez Mary is so good she’s probably just some male writer’s fantasy creation.
“Hate” is just a word, too. “Disappointment,” “cheating,” “divorce,” “disillusionment,” “unhappiness,” “resentment,” “affair” are all just words. “Finding someone you truly love after settling for good enough” is just a phrase.
And this is just a comic strip.
People do things they don’t want to do all the time out of a sense of obligation or friendship to somebody else.
I think this is an attempt to shift responsibility away from the person doing the badgering.
No it isn’t, but more importantly, she’s saying she doesn’t feel about him the way he feels about her. No matter how you slice it. something is missing for her, and it would not be appropriate to keep trying to pressure her into a marriage.
Again, no it isn’t, and agin, that’s not the issue anyway. The issue is that she’s telling him she doesn’t feel the same way he feels.
That’s exactly what she is.
I could be mistaken, but I think the guy who created her said in the thread that Mary was not marriagable and htat she needed work – i.e., therapy.
And what kind of poll results might change your mind?
Women of the SDMB:
You are sleeping with a man who you care deeply for, but don’t love and do not want to marry. You’ve known each other a year.
He asks you to marry him. You tell him you don’t love him. He asks ask you again the next day.
Do you agree to marry him?
a: Yes
b: No
Note to voters: the man isn’t dying, abusive or in danger of deportation.
Dio, would an 90% No vote make you inclined to think that Mary was willingly accepting the proposal?
None. Why would I change my mind because of a poll? I’m right. A poll isn’t going to change that.
I don’t dispute that she might be reluctantly “willing,” I’m saying it would be a douche move to insist on it.
And I do not calibrate my opinions according to polls. If everybody else disagrees with me, that just means everybody else disagrees with me. I don’t care.
I suspect that Mary hasn’t been faithful to this relationship and doesn’t want to let your friend know about it or feel bad about it. I think she probably liked him to start but while he was in his accident she met someone else, a fling, and it changed her perspectives. Out of guilt she nursed him back to health but that doesn’t mean she fell in love with him again.
Buddy needs to start asking some questions.
Someone might bring up an argument you hadn’t thought of, or facts of which you were not aware.
Do you think either of those is possible?
I don’t see where you’re getting reluctance from. Her dialogue in the OP says that she wants to say yes, but feels that Don has to know something first. If she had gone on to say, “I want to say yes, but before you do you should know that I categorically refuse to bear or adopt children,” would you call her reluctant to marry?
And given that she says she wants to marry but fears she is not capable of the sort of romantic love Don has declared, it seems unlikely that she is going to see herself as settling.
Don, of course, would be settling. You seem to think the balance of power in this hypothetical scenario is in Don’s favor. I think otherwise. If she’s truly not in love with him, it’s in Mary’s.
Not remotely.
Everything you’re saying sounds self-contradictory to me. Cutting throug the bullshit, she’s saying she doesn’t love him like he loves her, but will marry him to make him happy if he insists. My opinion is that “if you insist” is not the kind of answer anyone should be looking for in a spouse, and the expressed lack of reciprocated feelings should be respected at face value.
Ohbee-kaybee.
So we’re clear, is your intellectual superiority merely relative to the rest of the Teeming Millions, or are you, in fact, Earth’s Smartest Man?
I don’t really have anything to add, except that almost the exact same situation is the basis for “Lady Audley’s Secret”. It doesn’t end well in the book, though the resulting marriage is actually fairly happy.