I dunno, you sound pretty beta to me. If you’re getting any, it’s probably pity-fucks. But whatever. The OP lady comes off sounding as a whiny bitch upset that she got what she was looking for. Here’s a little protip: characterising a large group of humans as worthless “betas” is perhaps not the best way to start a post aiming to engage others in ones own self-pity.
If you haven’t had to put these superior BS detection skills to the test during an attempted rape situation and successfully defended yourself using your awesome numbchuck skillz, then why should the average woman put any trust in your advice?
Seriously, it’s like a seeing person giving advice to the blind about protecting themselves, when not only do they have zero experience in being blind but they haven’t even studied the subject of blindness. Talk about bullshit. It’s good you’re an expert in that because it’s all you’re bringing to this conversation right now.
Because I teach strategies and skills that have been successfully used by other women to protect themselves.
Do you reject a cardiologist’s advice unless he has survived a heart attack?
Regards,
Shodan
Shodan - so, as the arbiter of reasonable behaviour, what else are women supposed to refrain from?
Getting drunk in public, check. Is slightly tipsy OK, or must women remain completely sober at all times?
Allowing themselves to be set up, check. (Whatever that means. Because I’m pretty sure that no one goes “wow, today I think I’m going to let someone set me up to be hurt”. But then, I think those ‘baby on board’ decals are stupid, too.)
Let’s assume we’ve already covered the standards, you know, all the things that women already know about: situational awareness (watch your surroundings, be aware of escape routes, don’t be distracted or wear headphones or get involved in texting or calls, etc.), avoid isolated or deserted or dark areas, avoid public areas with possibly dangerous people or situations, don’t carry too much, don’t look like a victim (look confident and purposeful, don’t dawdle or look confused or lost or distracted), don’t go out alone, don’t leave your drink unattended or accept drinks from people, don’t let anyone separate you from your friends, carry a whistle or alarm, don’t accept rides from anyone you don’t know well and trust, learn self-defense techniques, don’t go out at night, keep car doors locked, park only in open and well-lit areas, don’t park near anything that might provide cover, check around and under the car and in the back before getting in, keep your house locked up, don’t leave windows open, don’t be alone with people you don’t know well and trust, sit near the driver on public transportation, don’t open your door to anyone you don’t know well and trust, stay where people are around, walk on the curb or in the street - avoid walking near doorways, nooks, plantings, or other places of concealment, don’t hitchhike or pick up hitchhikers, keep keys in hand (preferably in a defensive pose as previously mentioned - alternatively, put a heavy set of keys on a longish chain to use as a weapon), don’t have any large landscaping that might provide cover, plant thorny shrubs strategically to deter access, install extra lighting, keep a charged cell phone handy at all times, don’t dress provocatively, don’t attract attention when you’re out, don’t talk to strange men, …
Did I miss some? What other things, in your extensive training and experience, should women be doing to protect themselves?
So read that list again. Basically the only interactions that women are allowed are either with close friends and family, or in public with other people around. Does that not strike you as a bit limiting?
Alternatively, instead of spending time and effort telling women something they already know, you could be part of the effort to change attitudes and awareness in men, which is where the source of the problem lies.
Teaching Men Rape Prevention Actually Works
Educating men cuts sexual assaults
Men Can Stop Rape
The Day I Taught How Not to Rape
Rape Prevention Tips for Men
On the other hand, as far as me (and others) being snarky, here’s an analogy. Let’s pretend for a moment that you were online here discussing the finer points of your favorite martial arts with other experts. And I showed up and started explaining to you how to take a fall, because taking a fall properly is the first thing that you need to learn if you want to do most martial arts.
Would you find that a little annoying? And once you’d all said “yeah, thanks, we know that”, then I just kept on explaining it to you in detail and claiming that this was some esoteric knowledge and it was vital that you listen to me, because it was important for you to know this.
Wouldn’t you find that really annoying? And then, let’s say that I got mad because none of you understood that I was just trying to help and I was giving good advice, and so I left the conversation. And about the time you got another good discussion going, someone else showed up and started in with the exact same schtick.
Over and over and over again. Every single time you try to have a discussion about other aspects of martial arts, some self-proclaimed expert comes in to tell you how to fall and then gets huffy when you ignore him or blow him off, and proceeds to explain how it’s all your own fault if you get hurt because you won’t listen to him and what assholes you are for not appreciating his superior knowledge.
Do you think that you might, just maybe, just possibly, might eventually get a little sick and tired of that bullshit? And maybe, the next time someone wandered in to tell you how to do things that you already know, you might get a little snarky?
I’ll take the bait. My ballet class was held at a karate school, and the owner, a man with a gorgeous, petite wife and two daughters, taught all of us a self defense class each quarter. I learned how to escape from various chokeholds, go for the eyes and punch throats with an elbow or closed fist. Also carried mace everywhere because I was a long distance runner.
I felt tough, independent, and capable, but I was pulled into a house by two men, both bodybuilders. Fortunately the 2nd guy only watched, but I had zero chance of escaping or fighting them off. Sure, we should have some self defense skills, ought to be cautious, avoid alcohol, never use the phone in parking lots, fist our keys, pack pepper spray, a knife, or deadlier weapon, we ought to avoid clubs and bars, we should jog inside the gym on a treadmill, we should never run errands alone, we ought to dress in oversized, baggy clothing, we should never date anyone we haven’t known for months, we ought to have escorts in parking lots, we shouldn’t wear shoes we can’t run easily in, must not, under any circumstances, assume that men believe us when we say the word no, and we should conduct ourselves as though we could be raped any moment.
We women are free to protect ourselves at the expense of every freedom.
Redtail, you forgot have a male voice on your answering machine. Never tell anyone you live alone. If you need repairs in your house, have a male friend that you trust there. Arrange to have deliveries left at your door, when they require a signature, send them to work. Never work late with a male colleague.
All those folks you teach- did you knock on their doors, tell them they needed training, push your way in after they “no thanks” and berate them for not taking your lessons? No- I imagine they sought you out and asked for your training.
No one here asked, and when offered said they didn’t want to hear it. Respect that request.
Oh, I’m sure there are more that I missed. After all, the lists of “Things Women Must Do To Avoid Rape” and “Things Women Must Not Do To Avoid Rape” are endless and ever-changing.
I’m just waiting to hear from the expert.
I’ll have to console myself that** I** can calm down, but **you **can’t fix stupid.
We’ll add “stunning lack of perception” to your long, long list of character flaws.
Hmm, it seems we CAN’T add "lack of reading comprehension, it’s already there a few times.
It’s a hell of a way to make fun of some slapdick who wanders into a pit thread to toot his own horn about how he has to be pushy to get women, though. 
I think they’re working about as well as possible. Unfortunately, all the safety precautions in the world don’t some men from trying to rape, harass, and sexually assault us.
Anyone who doubts that the average woman is already more cautious about her own safety than the average man should take a look at the stats on victims of violent crime other than rape and sexual assault. Here, for instance, are the FBI’s 2011 stats on murder victims. In that year, over 77% of murder victims were men. Men also make up a majority of robbery and (non-sexual) assault victims. So maybe men should be asking women for tips on how to avoid being victimized instead of saying we only get raped because we’re not careful enough.
That said, if I ever want your advice on anything at all then I’ll be sure to ask for it. I don’t want to speak for all the other women in this thread, but I suspect they feel the same way.
Yeah. And it’s not even so much the contempt itself that’s so scary. It’s how otherwise normal and civilized a lot of them seem. Because there’s no warning signs with someone like that. None. You could know a guy like that for ages with nothing at all to twig you to the fact that this isn’t somebody good and honest and kind whom you can trust. At least, nothing until the moment you say “No” and he doesn’t listen.
It makes the world seem so much darker and more threatening than it was before I started reading this thread. Because the guys who might jump me in a parking lot, or try to spike my drink, or are obviously assholes/pigs…I can protect against those to at least some degree. But the guys I know through work/school/clubs/other friends, who seem to be good, upright, decent human beings who respect other people…how the loving fuck am I supposed to protect myself against them, short of barricading myself in my house wearing a goddamn burqua and holding a gun?
I don’t want to minimize your feelings. That said, man, the feeling I am getting is, how on earth can I possibly do anything to protect my DAUGHTER from these people? I’m raising her to be strong and assertive, and know that no means no and fighting back is allowed and I will always have her back if she needs support…but that doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme.
After participating in this thread, I look at my two-year-old and all I can think is, “She’s gorgeous, and there are those guys out there just waiting for her.”
Swear to god, that kid’s going to know how to use a knife before she hits middle school.
Zeriel, I plan to talk to her about guilt, and all the messages since time immemorial that shame women for being temptresses. I’m going to tell her about self defense and personal safety of course, but somehow I’m going to convince her that she’s no occasion to sin, she’s not responsible for anyone else’s relief, and I’ll make sure that she conducts herself in such a way that she could never be accused of being a tease. I want to remove all doubt that she’s under any obligation to satisfy someone else unless she wants to.
No, I would just scroll past it.
Regards,
Shodan
Demonstrably not true, given how often you react to “the usual suspects”.
Of course you would, sweetheart.
tl;dr
Regards,
Shodan
On lessons learned and civil discourse.
I feel like a lot of you have heard enough from me by now but I’d just like to apologize and say thanks. I’ve said some offensive things and been taken to task for them. It hurts my ego and my reputation here, but I feel that I’ve learned from it. Which is in the spirit of The Dope after all.
I made points in earnest that I felt were good suggestions and didn’t realize the patronizing and offensive meaning behind them. So, I didn’t understand where the direct outrage was coming from. I, like many others, suggested that women accept responsibility for their safety. It wasn’t until Annaamika asked me in the other thread “how was I supposed to protect myself from my dad?” At that point it hit me like a ton of bricks, but the damage had already been done.
What doesn’t work however, particularly in a message board format, are personal insults on a posters character. Remember we don’t know each other, just each others points of view. All of which come from different backgrounds and experiences.
Shodan is giving his point of view and some of you are saying you didn’t ask for it or don’t want to hear it. This is an open forum. By simply participating in it, you accept that any member has the right to say what he/she wants. Like he says, you can either ignore it, report it or respond. However, simply saying “we don’t want to hear what you have to say” is basically saying “Shut up Shodan. You’re an idiot.” That’s not fair.
With that being said, I wish I’d had this conversation years ago. I have a much different perspective and it’s thanks to those of you who took the time to show me where I’m wrong.
Polite societies recognize there are times and places to say certain things. One doesn’t go to a funeral and tell the widow that he was a rat bastard who had been cheating on her for thirty years, and one doesn’t go into a thread where a woman was assaulted and tell her it was her own fault and reams of contradictory advice for how to have prevented it.