Hey, as someone who has all - repeat ALL - of Heinlein in my bookshelf, you don’t have to lecture me. Besides, taking up arms against the English didn’t solve it. Smart negotiations with the French did.
I’m not opposed to violence, but there’s a time and place for everything. I think it would be extremely foolish to invade Syria, Jordania and/or Iran. Not because you can’t (you can), but because maintaining the peace is not an option you can hope for. Besides, give Iran another five years and it will swing around. Had you not invaded Iraq, it would’ve happened sooner.
Besides, I’m only telling Al that things won’t get better if he resorts to violence.
But negotiations with the french would have been pointless if we didn’t have the military strength to resist Britain’s control. No? If I’m wrong please give me some cites showing me where my error lies.
P.S. I wasn’t lecturing you.
But, what if they do?
It depends on how you define ‘better’, doesn’t it?
If, for someone, ‘better’ meant “having all foreign powers and their troops out of the ME.”
Then a guerilla campaign might very well make things ‘better’.
Wow… So is this designation of ‘assholery’ coming from an intollerant christian perspective?
Why should other people, especially those who don’t celebrate christmas, be prohibited from posting on christmas day?
Are you an asshole if you post during Ramadan?
How about Yom Kippur?
Too late (almost 4 am here) for me to start looking for cites.
The thing is - the US troops won’t leave, there’s too much at stake. I don’t think Alde would really try to get a kalshnikov and hijack a Suzuki jeep to go over there and start shooting up US GIs. But even if he did, it wouldn’t make a dif. And shooting off his mouth here will only serve to alien<ate other dopers who might learn something from one of the few (the only?) doper who’s noty only residing in the MENA, but has a cultural heritage from the Muslim world.
So it doesn’t matter if he means it or not. Doing it will not help his cause. Just talking about it won’t do that either.
The best bet the Iraqis have right now is to make themselves into mensch, as seen from an American POV. As long as they’re dirty ragheads, setting off carbombs and killing our guys, they won’t get much sympathy, and should Rummy decide to start squeezing them harder, he won’t catch much opposition in the US.
However, if the US troops get the same attitude as the guys who went to Vietnam, then the Iraqis have a much better chance of getting a future which is not decided by the US.
War isn’t about who’s right or wrong - it’s about who’s left.
And marketing plays a big part in that. Baghdad Bob might be a joke, nowadays, but a quagmire it is - if not for the reasons he gave.
Fair enough, we can debate that point later on if you’d prefer.
Possible… although I do believe that inflicting massive casualties on our forces might be enough to do the trick. Not that I’m suggesting that would be a good thing, at all, but it might very well be a pragmatic one.
Probably not… but a thousand people like him? A million? Five million?
I agree that Alde should try to avoid being banned, yes.
But I think that his ‘shooting off his mouth’ does serve a very valid purpose. It is necessary that Americans understand the rage, and the reasons, behind much of the ME’s reaction to us.
But what if they’re concerned with winning their freedom from their occupiers and not if Americans think they’re good folk or not? If your country was invaded for the purpose of ‘regime change’, isn’t it possible that you too might pick up a gun?
I know I would.
(what is the plural of mensch anyways?)
Do you really think that’ll change? When we first invaded Iraq the Iraqis who tried to defend their country were labeled ‘terrorists.’
You’ve essentially set up a catch 22.
-Allow the occupation to continue, and you’re screwed.
-Fight the occupation, and you’re a ‘dirty…setting off carbombs…’, and you’re screwed.
I do not grok, elaborate please?
Yes and no… but if my country were invaded, I’d pick up a gun and try to kill me some invaders.
I still think that a concerted guerilla campaign is the only way that any military on earth could defeat the United States armed forces.
ChefGuy As a Jew living in the US, and having a Gregorian calendar on my wall, I generally don’t remember when Christmas is. I know it’s sometime in the end of December, other than that people have to remind me. Aldeberan probably has an Islamic calendar on his wall. Due to differences between the two calendars, the date of Christmas on the Islamic calendar varies wildly. Add that Coptic Catholics and other Christian sects observe Christmas on different days, and it’s very possible he either didn’t realize that many Christians would be observing Christmas today, or he simply forgot.
FinnAgain
I could be wrong, but I think that the plural of mensch is menschen. On preview, I see Eva Luna agrees with me.
Aldeberan
Please calm down, or take some time away from the SDMB. I’m worried that you’ll keep getting angrier and be banned. Look at how many posters in this thread are agreeing with what you said.
I agree. This is clearly not a fair situation for Aldebaran. I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen the the same level of extremism in the comments from Americans. You can’t restrict just one thing and pretend to be fair. That’s like lying to cover up previous lies. I’ve seen the moderators claim to be objective. The greater the number of prohibitions, the harder it is to acheive objectivity. People should be allowed to express their true feelings. That is what makes interactive forums like this valuable to the world.
Yes and no…
It seems to me that having a ‘no wishing death’ policy is a workable model for the SDMB…
Although, yes, I would also think that this line might be somewhat hazy, and, IMO, Alde wasn’t a jerk when he crossed it.
What bothers me is the disparity.
If nobody is allowed to do it, then fine, nobody is.
But if Americans can say “I hope our troops get them thar insurgents in Iraq, hell, I’d enlist if I could!!” (and thus, possibly kill some of Alde’s relatives…)
Why can’t Alde say “I hope like someone gets those US troops, heck, I feel like picking up a rifle myself!”
Yeah, I don’t get this either. You are saying the Viet Cong were mensch? WTF? How long do you figure the ass-kissing has to go on until they aren’t “dirty ragheads” anymore?
Alde, I reiterate and join in with many others in this thread in stating that your fundamental worldview is to be respected and valued, but that when you let yourself be seized by the impulse and lash out in anger and spite you only hurt your argument.
Also, I’m pretty sure this wasn’t what you were implying, but even if Alde knew the date of Christmas, why on earth would that obligate him not to start an OP in the pit?
Please explain to me how his anger and spite is any different from the anger and spite coming out of Americans post 9/11. I remember, from that time, that comments like “wiping out the ragheads” was a no-go here, but “i’m joining the army” and “let’s fuck up their country” got free rides.
Personally I don’t mind Aldebaran being a bit of an asshole sometimes, it counteracts the blase attitude everyone has here to North American assholes.
Thats not what he said though. He said he wanted to go and start shooting. If he said ‘Heck I feel like I want to go join the resistance’ it wouldn’t have gotten a second glance from a mod. Its largely a semantic argument but saying that you want to go and shoot people that are family members of posters on this board is needlessly inflammatory. I believe (outside an emotional post in the pit) that if a poster said that s/he wanted to go to Iraq and shoot some Arabs that poster would be warned just as severly as Aldebaran was.