Hail the US troops, change membername in YELLOW RIBBON. Or get banned.

Aldebaran, I am utterly opposed to the Iraq war, and I routinely deal with people who misinterpret my position (deliberately, I think) to being one of animosity toward the U.S. troops, for whom I wish nothing but their safe return home. Regardless of whether or not you have a right to express your opinion (and technically speaking you don’t have that right on this forum, since it’s privately run and its administrators can make the rules whatever they choose), I would personally greatly prefer it if you didn’t follow a statement of your opposition to the Iraq war with a wish that harm befall American soldiers. To be blunt, it makes the rest of us anti-war folk look bad.

Also: If you’re characterizing what gaudere said as being “Support U.S. troops or be banned”, then you’re misinterpreting him at least as badly as anyone has misinterpreted you. Surely you must see the difference between “Support the U.S. troops” and “Don’t openly wish death upon the U.S. troops.” If you had merely said “I hope the U.S. withdraws all troops from Iraq”, that would certainly not have prompted any objection from the mods. You said you wanted to shoot at them. Whether they should allow you to say that or not, it’s clearly not the same thing.

Uhh, because wishing people dead is bad karma. It’s also against the rules. Why Alde gets a pass, I guess I’ll never know.

Don’t fucking bother to respond to MilJ, people. Do you honestly think that if he had any actual responsibility in this world he would have such irresponsible opinions?

Well perhaps, but if this MB is probably just his way of using up tensions he builds up during his normal day. But for the most part I think of him as a joke/caricature of the generic nationalist American moron.

Hell ,if we’re all playing semantics Alde didn’t even say he wanted to kill American troops, just shoot them. Not every shooting is fatal.

Well, let’s just forget the assassination attempt on GHW Bush. :rolleyes:

How the hell would they be shot? The US is in this alone. Ergo, Americans are the only ones shot at. Good Lord, Doc, visit the Pit more often!

The claim was made that shooting specifically US troops was somehow beyond the pale. It seems somehow valid to ask why shooting those nations’ soldiers wouldn’t be beyond the pale.

I’d also point out, that oddly enough, shooting Iraqis didn’t make the list of beyond the pale actions.

Note I really need to learn how to parse multi quotes in a single post. :smack:

Looking over all the responses, I have to fall into line with Alde’s way of thinking. We were completely wrong in the Iraqi war. Well, not us, Bush specifically. He’s the mass murderer that has personally killed everyone there. That bastard. :mad:

But I think I have a solution, though maybe it’s too little, too late. Let’s get it to a UN vote and see what good it does. It’s 3 pronged, so follow me here and tell me what you think.

1.) Release Saddam Hussein and allow him to resume control of Iraq. This gives 3 benefits right away, with possible later bonuses. (Assuming we can “mend fences” with the French.)

a. Complete security for Iraqis with no concern about torture, rape or murder.

b. Return of elections so Iraqi’s can choose thier own leader.

 c. Terrorists see the goodwill and stop targeting the West. esp. Americans

2.) Reinstate the Taliban. Why? 3 more points

a. The gov’t itself never attacked us. ObL lived there, but he was never a gov’t agent.

 b. They are a Muslim country. The war was clearly based on religion, therefore wrong.

    c. They fought the Soviets. Friend of my enemy, and all that.

3.)Abandon Israel. I’m not sure of the history, but I seem to remember a rumor or three about the Arab world not being too fond of the US for supporting the Israeli State.

Problems solved. No more war. RedFury, I assume even a communist such as yourself could back this plan, right?

Just ‘nest’ the quote tags within each other.

Pretty much.
Let me ask you, if France invaded the US on phoney charges that we were developing banned weapons and had connections to terrorism, would you say that it was a good move?
Would you gladly accept your new french overlords, as they, of course, knew what was best for you and would drag you kicking and screaming into their vision of how your country should be?

Stilgar: He killed six million? He must have had impressive weapons. Lasguns perhaps?
Mau’Dib: He killed the way I kill, by ordering it.

Fallacy of the excluded middle.
Just because we don’t support the way Bush went about this does not mean that we support Sadaam.

The Taliban was allowing terrorist training camps to proliferate, as such, they were aiding our enemies and we had every right to counter their threat.

Come on Duffer, rhetorical extravagance/strawmen aren’t the way to go.

duffer, communists don’t love everything you hate- that’s just what your Mommy told ya. :slight_smile:

I almost started this post with “come on…” but some hippy freak beat me to it. :slight_smile:

Isn’t amazing how in this world, that accepts the importance of communication so clearly, rejects the responsibility of the original communicater?

Hey!
That’s hippie **superfreak. ** to you! :wink:

Let’s see if it works.

Well, yeah. If the US were being run by someone like Hussein, I’d be the first to take up arms. That’s why the 2[sup]nd[/sup] Amendment is there. I know what you’re getting at, but really, that’s a big reason we have a right to have guns. The framers of the Constitution knew how powerful a gov’t could become and needed a way to show that the citizens are, in fact, in control. Ever wonder why Washington dismissed the idea of being a King?

I never swore blood allegience to how the war in Iraq came about, but it’s happening. Support or denounce it, it’s there. We either commit to win at all costs, or we leave now. I’m tired of arguing the merits of the war since it’s acedemic right now. We either win or come home early. I don’t like it any more than most on these boards, but it’s a truth we have to deal with. Frankly, at this point, we need an honest version of the UN to take care of this situation. It’s no longer a war, per se, but a security detail. But as long as the French, Germans and Russians want to play politics with Iraqi independence, the US has to do what it can to stabilize the country. Do we want help from said nations? Of course. But I know damn few that will cower and beg said nations for help. If they really want to help Iraq, they’ll offer help as needed.

How many of Hussein’s $5,000 checks to Palestian families of suicide bombers bounced?

No strawman there. My proposal is exactly what is needed to end the war and make everyone happy. At least those that want an immediate end to the Iraqi war. It may have been tongue in cheek as I don’t feel that way, but from what I’ve seen on the SDMB for the last year and a half, it may gain some ground.

Hot shit, it worked! Thanks for the help Finn, even if it was to disagree. Learn something new everyday and all that.

See… I don’t view it as cowering.
I think it would, to personify the nation for a bit, be the adult and mature thing to admit we were at fault and ask for help.
At a certain point, we have to swallow our pride.

I don’t have the cite on me right now and I can’t seem to find it, but I remember reading that few, if any, of the suicide bombers’ families got a dime from him. IIRC it was a PR stunt designed to earn him ‘street cred’ in the ME.

Also, although I condemn Palestinian terror tactics in the strongest possible terms, they’re not a threat to the United States. Our stated reason was to protect ourselves, not Israel.

I wish there was a smiley with the tongue sticking out.
You know full well your proposal wouldn’t end any war.
You also know that virtually no SDMB’er would get on board.
Putting Saddam back in power, indeed!

Oh, and, no prob about helping with the quotes. I posted both to disagree and to help, but I would’ve posted an answer to your question regardless of the other content.

Aldebaran, you continue to be an amazing teacher.

Gandi was once labelled a “terrorist.” A matter of semantics, I guess.

I know that if ever you and I came face to face, we would treat each other with respect and hospitality. If either of us brought friends and family, that respect would be extended. I believe that to be true.

I focus on those feelings of peacefulness.

Salaam

I meant cowering and begging to be synonymous.

The threat from the PLO et al exists precisely because the USA supports Israel. Pre-1945 what animosity existed towards the west or, specifically the US? Should Israel be abolished tomorrow, there will still be ingrained hatred of the US, but without such a close focal point, it would likely diffuse over time.

I know my proposal would never be enacted. But seeing so many of the Bush/Rumsfeld/Cheney/Halliburton pit threads, it seems we have to get out before another soldier dies. Better Saddam in charge than trying to give millions of people a fair shot at a decent life. However they choose it.

Moment of pessimism What if they actually elected Hussein in January? :smack:

I understand, I don’t see it as either.
When you fuck up, you fix things.
If you’re too stubborn to fix things because it means you’d be ‘beggging’, well…
if you really want to cut off your nose to spite your face, you can.

But the PA isn’t a threat to us. Hamas isn’t a threat to us. Fatah isn’t a threat to us. So Sadaam supporting them wasn’t a threat to us.

Gah.
Fallacy of the excluded middle!

Realizing that American troops are making a complete hash of the mission, through no real fault of their own, isn’t foolish. We can give millions of people a fair shot at a decent life, try Saddam for war crimes, and rely on the UN to get it done without having our troops there.

The choice isn’t between a mismanaged war and a brutal dictator.

Theoretically possible but unlikely.
And, if they did…well, what could we do?
Oh, and, I just feel like pointing out that this pit thread has now reached the point where we’re not even tacitly addressing the OP and have instead spiraled out onto tangents. No value judgement, just an observation.

I’ve said this to other Dopers I’ve disagreed with as well. And it’s sincere. It’s one thing to sit at a desk and type out what your feelings are in times of heated exchange, it’s another to look someone in the eye and say the same things.

Was Alde serious about taking up arms against Americans? I have no idea. He gets passionate about ME situations, so maybe it’s a “heat of the moment” type thing when he says stuff like that. If not and he’s serious, well, I suspect a severe curtailing of posts.

But why would you do that when they are not synonymous.

This has been happening often lately, hasn’t it? Eh, whatcha gonna do? :shrug:

Head over to my GD thread. I’d love to know what you think of it and any thoughts you have.