Happy to Oblige, Anthracite

[Maeglin]

This thread is entirely gratuitous. Like most pit threads, it could have been avoided completely. But Anthracite petitioned me so kindly in this thread:

Don’t make me tax the server by searching to find out what your real problem is…actually, how about starting another Pit thread, so you stop shitting on this one, mmmkay?

So here it is. I am Anthracite’s most humble and obedient servant.

I don’t know Guinastasia from Eve. Nevertheless I feel her bereavement. As a cat co-dependent myself, I understand the deluge of suffering caused by the loss of a loved companion.

Now I would turn to my objection to Anthracite’s remarks and then her own hasty and illogical replies.

To summarize, Anthracite suggested that **Guin[/s] take refuge at her own message board after some trollish comments were made here.

Guinastasia, you can also try picking a troll-free place to rant and get some tea and sympathy too, if you know where I mean…

In a thread lamenting the loss of a dear animal companion, this struck me as questionably appropriate for two reasons.

First, why did Anthracite have to resort to a “wink wink nudge nudge” manner of enticement? If Anthracite honestly thought she was behaving in an above-board fashion, why couldn’t she come out and say “come to the UnaBoard” already?

It is true, we cannot know that Anthracite was directing Guinastasia to her own board. But there is simply no reason to use obfuscating language if Anthracite were talking about the two other most likely forms of communication, email and the telephone. She would have simply said, “call me if you don’t want to deal with the trolls.”

Second, her suggestion smacks of profiteering, for lack of a better word. “Well, we don’t have trolls at my board…why don’t you come there?” I am not, of course, imputing any motive to Anthracite’s behavior. I am only commenting on how I receive her words.

I recall the outrage that traditionally accompanies the hijacking of funeral or obituary threads. I felt that this should be no exception. I felt no burgeoning indignation, hence I made a general inquiry to see if others interpreted Anthracite’s words in a similar vein.

Well, did you? Am I overinterpreting her comments? It’s certainly possible. Just say so now and I would gladly recognize my error.

Her reply is unnecessarily cutting.

It starts well enough.

Guinastasia is a member over there, and we have a lot of cat lovers over there too, and have had several cat-oriented threads and subtopics lately.

Perfectly good reason. Why didn’t Anthracite stop there?

What are you really saying - that someone can’t recommend other avenues for commiserating with their friends?

That is not my argument at all. It is an artificial extension and misrepresentation of my claim presented in the most inhumane light possible.

? I hope you’re going to start doing this every time someone mentions Fathom, or else you’re going to look like a big old hypocrite. And you wouldn’t want that, right?

I cannot recall OpalCat foisting Fathom on anyone grieving in a funeral thread whatsoever, though it is more than possible that I missed one. I would tender the same comments to her as I did to Anthracite were that the case.

And your “product plug” statement is a flat out lie, because I in no way mentioned anything that told anyone where to go who did not already know where I was talking about. Evidently you did. So, what was your IP address again…?

Well, just because it wasn’t a cold sell does not mean it wasn’t a sell at all. Case in point: I know what the UnaBoard, yet I do not believe I am a member. Mentioning it in such a context could draw the numerous others just like me to participating. Not that this is such a horrible thing, of course. But in a context of bereavement, I find it inappropriate.

What does my IP address have anything to do with this?

Your problem is…what again? Don’t make me tax the server by searching to find out what your real problem is…

Search away. I would be very interested in finding out what my problem is, and any assistance you can lend would be gratefully appreciated.

I mean, at least you could have posted that you had some basic human feelings towards Guinastasia and her sadness, but instead you came in here to attack me. Well, you start that thread, and I’ll be there.

I do now know her. I firmly believe that outpouring of emotion to people with whom I have no individual connection is just verbiage which trivializes the real emotion that her friends can express. I do not wish to “tax the servers” with self-serving malarky. Unlike some posters perhaps, I do not have to post all of my basic human feelings. I just try to live with them myself.

I didn’t attack you, Anthracite, I just asked if anyone else found your remark impolite and self-serving. There really is a difference. Just email her next time.

MR

[Maeglin]

Nothing quite undercuts the credibility of a pit thread like mistakes in code.

Oh well.

[Rasa]

/me hands Maeglin a closing bold tag.

Hey, at least it was a gratuitous thread you fucked up.

[Miller]

FWIW, I would have thought the same thing Maeglin did, if it hadn’t been Anthracite who had posted it. Since I’ve never seen Anthracite trying to sell her board to anyone, I figured there was some previous relationship between her and Guin behind the post.

But yeah, I can see how Maeglin could misread that statement that way.

[Guinastasia]

Look-Maeglin-PLEASE don’t do this.
I’m a poster at Una’s site. It’s less, well, infested than this place is AT THE MOMENT. No Infidel or Big Perm or whoever telling you this that and such. Probably because it’s smaller, and not really something likely to be attacked.

Tea and Sympathy is the forum name.

Seriously, don’t do this. Please.

[Sterra]

I do now know her. I firmly believe that outpouring of emotion to people with whom I have no individual connection is just verbiage which trivializes the real emotion that her friends can express.

Maybe that is true for you, but why would you believe that is true for someone whom you can see they believe that is not true? And how is one emotion fake while another one real when they are the exact same emotion?

[Maeglin]

Maybe that is true for you, but why would you believe that is true for someone whom you can see they believe that is not true?

It is true for me, hence I do not generally post such things. I do not quite grasp your point.

[Una_Persson]

I’m going to try not to yell here.

*Originally posted by Maeglin *
This thread is entirely gratuitous. Like most pit threads, it could have been avoided completely.

My Mom always said it took two people to fight. Don’t foist this all on me.

**

Guinastasia, you can also try picking a troll-free place to rant and get some tea and sympathy too, if you know where I mean…

In a thread lamenting the loss of a dear animal companion, this struck me as questionably appropriate for two reasons.

First, why did Anthracite have to resort to a “wink wink nudge nudge” manner of enticement? If Anthracite honestly thought she was behaving in an above-board fashion, why couldn’t she come out and say “come to the UnaBoard” already?**

Because I do not like to advertise that other Board over here, as I consider it poor form to do so. There was a thread very recently in which someone asked for other general interest Boards, and I replied:

Well, there’s Fathom, there’s a board on Snopes, there’s the Pizza Parlor, and there’s one other I can’t remember right now…

Then, one of my own Moderators, pepperlandgirl, came in and added:

There’s also http://www.infidels.org and http://www.randi.org
Both are extremely awesome places to hang out.

My point? Even when people ask me for “cool places”, neither me nor my Mods typically offer my own place up to them. No, it’s not hidden, and I happily respond to e-mails, and sometimes I do post, but I consider it poor form to “advertise” my place here. And so do my staff.

It is true, we cannot know that Anthracite was directing Guinastasia to her own board. But there is simply no reason to use obfuscating language if Anthracite were talking about the two other most likely forms of communication, email and the telephone. She would have simply said, "call me if you don’t want to deal with the trolls."

You see, here is the thing. The thread had just started, and there were already 2 of 3 posts in response which appeared to be people attacking Guin over her concern for her kitty. So, I thought it was going to be some sort of hijacked pile-on, and referred her to elsewhere. Did I refer her to my own Board? Yes and no. I actually use the phrase “tea and sympathy” a lot, and it was intended generically. However, I also, at the same time, was hoping that she would go over and chat with the people at my place, since she is so welcomed there. And I don’t see her a lot over there.

The ironic thing is - the Forum in question is not even visible to non-members, not even for reading, so only members would have known specifically what I was talking about. No new members would have been recruited, because they are banned from seeing the Forum in question. Besides, I think anyone here who wants on is on; the rest either hate me enough never to join or don’t give a shit.

[sub]God, when Tuba or Lynn sees a Pit thread about the UnaBoard, they are going to smack me into next Wednesday…[/sub]

Second, her suggestion smacks of profiteering, for lack of a better word. “Well, we don’t have trolls at my board…why don’t you come there?” I am not, of course, imputing any motive to Anthracite’s behavior.

I challenge this. Your very words imply that I did this with a motive in mind, to “score points” in some odd game, whatever. Your words were highly insulting to me.

I recall the outrage that traditionally accompanies the hijacking of funeral or obituary threads. I felt that this should be no exception. I felt no burgeoning indignation, hence I made a general inquiry to see if others interpreted Anthracite’s words in a similar vein.

You mentioned e-mail and the telephone before…

**

Guinastasia is a member over there, and we have a lot of cat lovers over there too, and have had several cat-oriented threads and subtopics lately.

Perfectly good reason. Why didn’t Anthracite stop there?**

Because you were rude and insulting to me.

**

What are you really saying - that someone can’t recommend other avenues for commiserating with their friends?

That is not my argument at all. It is an artificial extension and misrepresentation of my claim presented in the most inhumane light possible.**

No more so than your “question”. Two can play that game, so let’s both stop.

**

? I hope you’re going to start doing this every time someone mentions Fathom, or else you’re going to look like a big old hypocrite. And you wouldn’t want that, right?

I cannot recall OpalCat foisting Fathom on anyone grieving in a funeral thread whatsoever, though it is more than possible that I missed one.**

Ummm…no, she would not do that. No more than I would. Or did.

I would tender the same comments to her as I did to Anthracite were that the case.

I would like to see some evidence of that before I believe it.

**

And your “product plug” statement is a flat out lie, because I in no way mentioned anything that told anyone where to go who did not already know where I was talking about. Evidently you did. So, what was your IP address again…?

Well, just because it wasn’t a cold sell does not mean it wasn’t a sell at all. Case in point: I know what the UnaBoard, yet I do not believe I am a member. Mentioning it in such a context could draw the numerous others just like me to participating. Not that this is such a horrible thing, of course. But in a context of bereavement, I find it inappropriate.**

It was not a sell at all. I presented an example above of how I avoid doing that. That’s not to say I never have, and never will “sell” it - but I try not to, in general.

**

I mean, at least you could have posted that you had some basic human feelings towards Guinastasia and her sadness, but instead you came in here to attack me. Well, you start that thread, and I’ll be there.

**

Ummm…I withdrew this one after I saw you posted something nice to her. Evidently more is required.

Unlike some posters perhaps, I do not have to post all of my basic human feelings. I just try to live with them myself.

OK…that’s good…

I didn’t attack you, Anthracite, I just asked if anyone else found your remark impolite and self-serving. There really is a difference. Just email her next time.

Yes you did, in the same way in which someone attacks someone if they ask “Does anyone else find so and so to be an asshole? I’m not saying they are, I’m just curious if anyone thinks that…” I found your remark impolite, although I doubt it is self-serving.

Step back. Your comment in the other thread was uncalled-for, and if you thought I let things like that go, you were wrong.

[Sterra]

I misinterpreted your comment and thought that you were talking about her instead of explaining yourself. That will teach me to not read a post closely enough:)

[KellyM]

*Originally posted by Anthracite *
**Step back. Your comment in the other thread was uncalled-for, and if you thought I let things like that go, you were wrong. **

Hm. That sounds like a threat. Whatever happened to “don’t be a jerk”? :rolleyes:

[Una_Persson]

*Originally posted by KellyM *
**

*Originally posted by Anthracite *
**Step back. Your comment in the other thread was uncalled-for, and if you thought I let things like that go, you were wrong. **

Hm. That sounds like a threat. Whatever happened to “don’t be a jerk”? :rolleyes: **

Hey, KellyM, what’s up?

BTW - you do realize it was you that spurred me to get off of my lazy ass and do the granitecanyon.com DNS thing, right?

[Maeglin]

My Mom always said it took two people to fight. Don’t foist this all on me.

As you wish. Our words speak for themselves. I don’t believe any foisting is required.

Because I do not like to advertise that other Board over here, as I consider it poor form to do so.

Ok, I am glad we agree that it is in poor form to advertise here. I am still trying to figure out where that line is drawn. Clearly you were not blatantly plugging your site with bells and whistles; I found your remark more subtle but no more appropriate.

If you consider something in poor form, shouldn’t you flee all appearance of it? If you don’t even acknowledge your site when it is solicited, why do you think posting such a suggestion without solicitation would somehow be an improvement?

Please help me here, Anthracite, because there is clearly some fine line that I am not understanding.

You see, here is the thing. The thread had just started, and there were already 2 of 3 posts in response which appeared to be people attacking Guin over her concern for her kitty. So, I thought it was going to be some sort of hijacked pile-on, and referred her to elsewhere. Did I refer her to my own Board? Yes and no. I actually use the phrase “tea and sympathy” a lot, and it was intended generically. However, I also, at the same time, was hoping that she would go over and chat with the people at my place, since she is so welcomed there. And I don’t see her a lot over there.

It was intended generically?

How do you reconcile this with your statement,

if you know what I mean

which immediately followed your generic appeal?

I am completely lost.

The ironic thing is - the Forum in question is not even visible to non-members, not even for reading, so only members would have known specifically what I was talking about.

I think there is some tension here between your interpretation and the reality of how your words are received. Your words referred the your board, whether you were referring to a private forum or not.

I challenge this. Your very words imply that I did this with a motive in mind, to “score points” in some odd game, whatever. Your words were highly insulting to me.

<sigh>

I am discussing how your words are received, not what you may or may not have had in mind when you wrote them. Let’s stick to the level of the written word here, please.

I didn’t attack you, Anthracite, I just asked if anyone else found your remark impolite and self-serving. There really is a difference. Just email her next time.

Yes you did, in the same way in which someone attacks someone if they ask “Does anyone else find so and so to be an asshole? I’m not saying they are, I’m just curious if anyone thinks that…” I found your remark impolite, although I doubt it is self-serving.

Step back. Your comment in the other thread was uncalled-for, and if you thought I let things like that go, you were wrong.

Your first assertion is incorrect. My questioning of your remark has no ad hominem content whatsoever. Everyone, except perhaps Polycarp, says off-color, insensitive, or downright self-serving things from time to time. This does not mean that they should be harshly judged, and certainly not deemed assholes.

My question was on the level of the text. I made no reference to judgments on your person, or generalizations based on your conduct.

A statement like, “don’t you thing so-and-so is an asshole” is manifestly different: it requires readers to draw a conclusion based on an aggregate of personality clues, which each reader can emphasize or de-emphasize as he sees fit. The very question itself invites a certain kind of prioritizing of behavior that leads to character judgment, usually in the favor of the asker of said question. The implied answer is almost always “yes.”

I invited no such judgment, hence incurred no such insult. I really just wanted to know if anyone else read your remarks as I did.

If you do not want to let this go, then be my guest. I have spoken my mind as clearly as possible and have laid it all out on the table for you. It is your choice whether you wish to be offended or not.

[Zyada]

*Originally posted by Maeglin *
First, why did Anthracite have to resort to a “wink wink nudge nudge” manner of enticement? If Anthracite honestly thought she was behaving in an above-board fashion, why couldn’t she come out and say “come to the UnaBoard” already?

Maybe because
[ul]
[li]Una didn’t want to the jerks that had already shown up in her thread to try to find her board?[/li][li]Una has always underplayed her board here and at Fathom?[/li][li] Possibly because some people here get testy when she mentions her board outright?[/li][/ul]

I really don’t understand why this bothered you at all. Guin had a problem, and Una mentioned a different place for Guin to talk about it. She didn’t state it outright for one of the reasons above, or any other number of reasons, good or bad. Why assume the worst?

[sub]Note, this whole post is rhetorical. I shouldn’t be in the pit, and I don’t really care how you took this since it doesn’t concern me that much. This was just to give you something to think about.
I think I’ll go back to MPSIMS now.[/sub]

[Una_Persson]

*Originally posted by Maeglin *
**If you consider something in poor form, shouldn’t you flee all appearance of it? If you don’t even acknowledge your site when it is solicited, why do you think posting such a suggestion without solicitation would somehow be an improvement?

Please help me here, Anthracite, because there is clearly some fine line that I am not understanding.**

Not everybody lists an e-mail. Not everybody will e-mail you when you ask. If a person I know, who I consider to be an online friend has asked me in the past, sometimes I have just told them in that thread. Also, although I do consider it poor form now, I did not always do so, mainly in the first couple months or so I started things up. I only brought up the fact that I had done so so I could be as honest as possible to you. That is all.

**It was intended generically?

How do you reconcile this with your statement,

if you know what I mean

which immediately followed your generic appeal?

I am completely lost.**

You are reading too much into it. I didn’t want to come out and say “Hey, your’re hurting here, and the Pit is not the best place to be if people are going to keep jumping in and gang-flaming you over your kitty.” Which is actually continuing full-steam in the other thread, as I post this now. MPSIMS might have been a better place. The BMZ on Fathom might have been a better place as well. Anyplace else might have been better, if one is being attacked. I don’t see why this is unclear.

I invited no such judgment, hence incurred no such insult. I really just wanted to know if anyone else read your remarks as I did.

Here are your words, again:

Am I the only one who finds Anthracite’s product plug in a thread like this a little…off-color?

Please…asking a question like that was obviously intended to get people to jump on the ol’ flame Anthracite bandwagon. You also accused me of doing a “product plug” - that was what was the most insulting. This is not asking people if they think I was doing that, you are telling people that is what I was doing. Big difference here.

**If you do not want to let this go, then be my guest. I have spoken my mind as clearly as possible and have laid it all out on the table for you. It is your choice whether you wish to be offended or not. **

How many times, in how many threads, have I seen this argument before? “If you aren’t going to lay down and let me insult you, then you are being a jerk.”

I’ll be here until we agree to be nice to each other and apologize for whatever misunderstandings we may have, we reach 8 pages, you walk away, or the thread gets closed.

I also see on preview that Zyada has posted some good reasons as well. But seriously, it was only reasons (2) and (3) in her post.

[Scotticher]

I think it is time to give this a rest. Okay? PLEASE?

[dropzone]

*Originally posted by Maeglin *
This thread is entirely gratuitous. Like most pit threads, it could have been avoided completely.

Gee, I couldn’t have said it better myself. :rolleyes:

Brother, I consider you a pal, if not a friend, but you seem to have a serious bug up your ass over, well, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. It’s too bad that the mods here won’t do you a favor and close, lock, and put away this thread before you embarass yourself further. Instead, you are going to have to put up with people who like you telling you to shut up because you’re sounding stupid. You’ve made that bed and now you have to sleep in it.

[reprise]

*Originally posted by Scotticher *
**I think it is time to give this a rest. Okay? PLEASE? **

What Scotti said.

[Gadarene]

I think that both Maeglin and Anthracite were trying to look after Guin’s feelings when they said what they did in the other thread. Given the subject matter–and, frankly, knowing how Maeglin feels about cats–it seems like raw nerves precipitated an avoidable conflict.

Anthracite, accept that Maeglin sincerely found something off-putting about your post, and that nothing personal was lurking beneath the surface of his response. Maeglin, accept that Anthracite was just offering her friend a place to go and talk, and was not meaning to solicit other visitors to her board.

I just don’t want to see this get any nastier. Y’all are both good folks.

[Una_Persson]

*Originally posted by Gadarene *
Anthracite, accept that Maeglin sincerely found something off-putting about your post, and that nothing personal was lurking beneath the surface of his response. Maeglin, accept that Anthracite was just offering her friend a place to go and talk, and was not meaning to solicit other visitors to her board.

I will accept that.

[Typo_Negative]

*Originally posted by Maeglin *
Ok, I am glad we agree that it is in poor form to advertise here. I am still trying to figure out where that line is drawn. Clearly you were not blatantly plugging your site with bells and whistles; I found your remark more subtle but no more appropriate.

Till you brought it up, I had no idea what the remark meant, and paid it no mind. Now that I know what it means, I still pay it no mind. Kinda like saying ‘E-mail me and we’ll talk there’, or ‘come over to my place and we’ll talk in private’.

I didn’t see it as a plug.

But then, I’m not the most observant fella in the world.