So I watched in horror while a woefully under-protected Capitol building was overrun on Wednesday January 6th. Apparently the Vice President and congress were nearly killed. I’ve even tried (unsuccessfully) to start a fundraiser for members of the Capitol Police on the front lines.
I was livid, and I have screamed my head off on social media about or democracy coming to an end. I’ve written my useless legislators. I’ve cried tears about my children’s future.
Now, on Sunday, January 10th, a full 4 days after the event, Pelosi is talking about how they might impeach the president sometime soon. Or maybe in 100 days. McConnell is saying the senate won’t deign to address it until January 20th at the earliest.
Have we been taken for a ride? If Congress was really under the threat they claimed and seemed to be wouldn’t they, well, do something about it?
I think I look pretty stupid right now for trusting what I saw was real.
Are you entertaining the possibility that the whole episode was a hoax? That’s where you’re going? That seems a very unlikely (and suspicious) reaction to the last few days.
I’m not going to try to explain it to you, not wasting my time.
What I saw was a large mob of insurrectionists, egged on by Trump and various right-wing media, invade the Capitol as a vote was being taken certifying that Trump had lost.
Fortunately, the mob never quite ended up in the same area as the various Senators, Representatives, and so forth. I have no doubt there would have been at least injuries, if not deaths, amongst the lawmakers had the mob found them.
Yes, it’s been four days. One day for the insurrection, the certification vote going on into the next day.
Another day or two to take stock, to rally opposition, to write articles of impeachment, and then to introduce them - while giving either Pence or Trump the chance to do the right thing. They won’t, but may as well give them a chance. Monday the articles will go live, skipping the House Judiciary committee.
The Senate is currently under the thumb of McConnell, who will do everything he can to keep power for the Republican party for as long as he can. Many Republicans are pleading for the country to move on, “allow the nation to heal”, sweep the whole business under the rug. Some other Republicans are calling for Trump to resign, Pence to invoke the 25th, and even for impeachment - too damned few, but there you are.
The insurrection was certainly no hoax, and I can’t imagine how anyone could even think that it was. It’s been mooted for months on Parler, Twitter, Facebook. It’s been documented in thousands of videos, snapshots, and personal accounts.
Well, there were hordes running through the capitol yelling about wanting to execute Pence the traitor (one cite), and somebody erected a wooden gallows across the street, so I don’t think it would have taken too much else going wrong to end up with a dead vice president.
In answer to the OP’s question, no, I don’t think we have been taken for a ride. The FBI and other law enforcement apparatus are making lots of arrests, and even Fox News is reporting that domestic terrorism cases being opened. Those are actions aimed at the people actually rioting through the building.
However, Trump’s exact role in this is still a bit murky and subject to dispute. I certainly think he egged on the rioters; many Republicans still don’t. He’s also very nearly at the end of his term, so trying to ram through an impeachment and trial before he’s out anyway is hard. The Senate is not scheduled to be in session again until the 19th, and under current rules the entire Senate would have to agree unanimously for them to resume earlier. Everybody knows they’re not going to get people like Cruz and Tuberville to agree.
Once Trump’s out of office, the urgency to hold an impeachment immediately just isn’t there (although I suspect there will be other hearings in both houses rather sooner, as the law enforcement machinery grinds through its work and more is known about the planning and how the Capitol Police got it so wrong).
Well perhaps I have been misinformed. The media reports I have seen from congressmen say things like “we came close to half the house nearly dying” and that the Senate doors were literally secured after rioters passed by the wrong way. Looking at videos of the crowd beating a police officer to death and crushing another behind a door as he screamed in agony made me think that perhaps these people were not looking to have tea and discuss policy with their congressperson.
But on the other hand, congress does not behave like it was a real threat, so I don’t know what I should believe? A hoax? Well it certainly seemed real when I was watching it. The videos certainly seem real, but the inaction from those who lived through it makes me think that Velocity is right and I am somehow misinterpreting things that seem to be pretty clear on their own.
What alternative scenario are you suggesting? “Crisis actors”?
I agree that trying to insinuate that the Capitol insurrection attempt is just a hoax does tend to make one look pretty stupid. I don’t think “trusting what you saw was real” is the problem here.
…did you expect Pelosi to pick up a shotgun and go hunting MAGAts?
Doing things right takes time.
Seriously, a day to recover emotionally, if nothing else, seems appropriate to me.
Also, in the midst of such events, information is fragmentary and occasionally wrong. It takes, again, some time to assemble the pieces, and to know what did happen with any degree of accuracy. We’ll be seeing new things about this insurrection for some time to come.
There are speeches all over the place from congressmembers and media outlets denouncing the insurrection attempt, and the FBI is raking in dozens of suspected perpetrators, while many march participants who so far remain at liberty have been put on No-Fly lists to prevent their leaving the area. What else do you think Congress or any other body should be doing to “behave like it was a real threat”?
I’ve never said it was a hoax. Roderick_Femm and Velocity said that. I am asking why people who were apparently threatened with their lives seem to not care about stopping the threat and ridding us of the guy who caused it.
If they don’t seem to think it is an urgent and important issue, why should I? If they don’t feel democracy is possibly at stake, why should I?
Also bear in mind, there’s any number of people interested only in minimizing the gravity of that attack - even on this board.
Then we have various Republicans saying stuff like this:
Those calling for impeachment or invoking the 25th Amendment in response to President Trump’s rhetoric this week are themselves engaging in intemperate and inflammatory language and calling for action that is equally irresponsible and could well incite further violence.
I bet you $5000 that if Pelosi passed a bill that said “the ACA is hereby repealed if this bill passes the Senate prior to Jan 20th”, the Senate would vote on it tonight.
How hard is it to write up articles of impeachment and vote on them?
What do you mean, “not care about stopping the threat”? What more do you think Democrats could or should be doing to “stop the threat” than is currently being done? As for “ridding us of the guy who caused it”, the House is in fact moving on a resolution for Trump’s removal via the 25th Amendment. If the Republicans refuse to take the necessary action, the Democrats will introduce a charge of incitement of insurrection against Trump as the first step of an impeachment process.
Yes, Democrats are treating this as an “urgent and important issue”. Of course it takes time and paperwork to implement such measures in accordance with the rule of law, but the whole point of the current situation is that the rule of law is rather important.
If, on the other hand, you’re asking why Republicans whose lives were at risk in the attack are dragging their feet on getting rid of Trump, apparently a lot of them are scared of Trump supporters and don’t want to go on record as not supporting Trump.
Why not? The impeachment process can’t possibly be concluded in the next nine days before Trump is out of office, anyway. So the “ridding us of the guy” is going to happen automatically before impeachment or other legal measures can operate.
I agree 100% that we should follow the rule of law. I remember when I was younger there was some issue with the national do not call registry, and congress passed a bill through both houses in around 24 hours. I would expect a coup attempt to be of similar urgency and importance.
I guess I don’t understand what the democrats are doing other than typical speechifying. I guess I don’t understand why the republicans would leave him in power if they are scared of his base. Do they want the military involved next time?