"He doesn't know he is gay, yet" -- What does this mean, exactly?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Well, I’ve done it again – overheard a conversation which leaves me quite perplexed!

I was at Subway, near Vanderbilt University in Nashville, TN, USA, and two college-age guys were talking about a mutual friend. I was reading and eating while this was going on, so I did not hear the entire conversation. The gist of it was the mutual friend’s (let’s just call him “Ned”) eccentricities. Despite the fact that Ned had a girlfriend, one of the fellows was fairly confident that Ned was homosexual. This was due to some of his interests, the way that he talked, and his gait.

(Note that they weren’t speaking about this matter in an overtly homophobic way. The guys did not seem to be stupid – they weren’t dragging their knuckles, or anything like that.)

That phrase – “Ned just doesn’t know that he is gay, yet” – happened to stick with me. It seems a bit arrogant to say this.

Has anyone else thought that the whole concept – “I know that my pal is gay, but he doesn’t” – seems a bit bizarre?

I would definitely like to hear other people’s opinions on this matter.

Any opinions

2

I think it was their way of saying he’s latent or in denial. The feel they see it in him and he’s not come to terms with it himself.

3

I met a gay couple at a party once. One of the guys had a very strong southern accent. I asked where they were from and I forget the name of the town, but it was in a very rural part of Alabama.

I said “It must have been tough growing up gay in the rural Bible Belt.” He said he had no idea that he was gay. He said that he was told that all gay men dress up in women’s clothes and want to have sex with every man they meet, and since he didn’t do those things, he thought he was straight and just hadn’t met the right girl yet. It wasn’t until he went to college and met other gay men that he came to realize it.

4

Well, I’ve had gay people tell me So-and-so pings their gaydar, even though So-and-so isn’t out yet, and in cases that I’ve been around for the follow-up So-and-so usually comes out.

Whether it’s arrogant or not, there are a lot of people who have really good gaydar, and it it works whether the person has come out to themselves or not.

Also, I’m reminded of a comment someone made when someone else told us of a twin study that something like 50% of identical twins were both gay when one was, as opposed to fraternal twins, who were only something like 20% likely to be a gay pair. (In other words, most twins, like most people were straight, but of the pairs of identicals with one gay person, half were a gay-straight pair, and half were a gay-gay pair.) the comment was “You mean, half of the twins haven’t come out yet.”

Note that the above comment was made in the late 1980s, when the idea of gayness being inborn was still controversial.

If someone pings your gaydar, is it fair, or nice to say so? On the one had, maybe you ought to keep all your opinions about another person that are not backed up by hard data to yourself. On the other, who does? and is your opinion about someone’s sexuality off-limits while other things aren’t? That suggests that it’s more than just a fact about someone, like their being left-handed or curly-haired.

Frankly, I’ve heard parents have this discussion about one of their children, and in a matter-of-fact kind of way, not in a which-deprogrammer-shall-we-use? way.

I don’t think these guys were wrong, if they weren’t being homophobic, and even if they were, it’s not really your business.

5

I admit I smash into this question by coming at it in a head-on and generally not very pleasant way, and that can provoke a less than carefully measured response.

But usually what it means is that some self-impressed jackass has decided on the basis of personality traits, behaviors, mannerisms, and other expressions of gender and sexual style that this person isn’t conventional, and “gay” is the only thing they know of besides “straight”. It’s annoying as all hell and seriously fucking creepy. (Hey you. Yes, you. Just why are you so damn interested in what I might like to do with it? Did I express confusion and ask your opinion? Is this some new method of trying to hit on me?)

I don’t mean to imply that there’s any hostility included with the sexual-orientation altercasting. Most often, there isn’t. Most often, it’s all imbued with warmth or at least tolerance. But I’m not in a closet here. I just don’t have a convenient short choppy name for how I am that you’d recognize and, guess what, I don’t always feel like plopping down my soapbox and doing a monologue on my gender identity and sexual orientation. (Although you probably wouldn’t think so to read my posts here on SDMB, I admit). And if I were in the closet, it’s not your job to extract me from it.

** sigh **

I recently described it as The Pink Elephant in the Living Room: gender-variant people in general make a lot of complaints about the expectations and perceptions that are based on their apparent sex (i.e., if you’re male you get treated as a man, expected to behave like a man, etc). But if you’re discerned to be a male-bodied person and your self-expressions fit the feminine / girl / woman pattern, you get the Second Tier of expectations and projected identity, and that is all about “gay guy”. So I suspect most gender-variant and transgender and genderqueer male-bodied people have not only had to consider then reject the default identity of “man” but then consider and reject the tier II default identity of “gay man”, either because of not being attracted to males or because it isn’t a sufficient or useful explanation of his sexual / gender identity.

6

Back in '77 I came out to members of the singles group I had been part of. More than one said “We knew, we weren’t sure you did”
And before that, I had no idea what Gay" meant (I noticed other boys going into hormonal overdrive over cheerleaders. I Considered myself a “late bloomer” and had no conscious idea why I preferred to watch the men’s gymnastic team practice)
In college, I sneaked into a porn store and saw a wall of mags that said “Gay” when I saw it, I thought “Oh, that’s it! Why didn’t anyone tell me?”) It still took another 6 years to realize that I was actually gay.
It took me 6 years to finally realize

7

My therapist has told me a couple times that she thinks I’m gay and that I don’t know it. I disagree. Perhaps if I cared more, I would be offended enough to fire her for being so presumptive. But I’ve always felt like maybe I haven’t come into my sexuality yet and that one day I could wake up with one. I have never felt romantic feelings towards women, but I do enjoy their company a lot more than I like men’s. So who knows? Maybe she sees what I can’t see yet.

I don’t think anyone would be shocked if I did come out as gay. I fit too many of the lesbian stereotypes for it to never cross anyone’s mind.

8

They’re just snarking on their buddy. I wouldn’t over analyze it.

9

My friend said he knew I was gay or bisexual when we were both in college, a good four to five years before I came out to him. During this period, I wouldn’t say I was in denial, but definitely I myself was trying to figure out my sexual orientation. I don’t fit the gay stereotype much either (also I don’t think he is exposed to the gay culture and stereotype). So how did he know when I wasn’t sure yet? Was it the fact that I was crushing on him off and on for several years? Was I, as people claimed in retrospect, visibly uncomfortable with the “girl talk” that teenagers engage in?

That said, a majority of the people said they had no suspicion that I was gay.

10

I have had people think I was gay because I walk funny. I have a shorter than normal tendon down the back of my legs, so I tend to seem, I guess, a bit prancy (I walk on my toes most of the time, maybe bounce, not quite sure, I have never paid a lot of attention). No other particular “gay” traits, though, other than perhaps an interest in trying to understand women.

11

An important qualifier! A lot of people, like you, aren’t nearly as interested in the answer than the pigeon-holers. I’ve known people who assumed I was gay because I don’t have their idea of manly interests, but when they told me I couldn’t care enough to be offended. One even thought I made up my wife and children, and was surprised when I brought them to a work picnic, but he was too stupid to deserve any attention.

OTOH, they may have a point. I was approached by a classmate, but my first reaction (unspoken) was, “Honey, I could do a lot better than you.” And I admit to a bit of a thrill when a handsome, “built” bouncer (I guess I have a “type”) put his hand on my shoulder to point me to the washroom. After I peed I went back to the table and a guy at another table winked at me. I told my wife, “You know how you said that when you used to go to this bar it was full of guys who wanted blow-jobs in the parking lot? I don’t think it’s changed all that much.”

I miss being young and cute. I still would probably not do anything, but somebody wanting to do nasty things with you is such a nice compliment!

12

My 21 year old when I was born sister says if only I had gone to college I could have explored my sexuality and realized I’m really gay. She bases this on the fact as a child I never conformed to gender stereotypes and did such things as watch both He-man and She-ra. rolls eyes…

She really does believe not being strongly gendered means you are gay.

13

I had a roommate in College that we suspected was gay. He tried dating girls, but you could tell he wasn’t really into it. About 10 years after college, he finally came out to several of us. For him it was a recent revelation about 8 years after college.

Sometimes you don’t know and others do.

14

As a gay guy I’ve definitely had these conversations with friends. But that’s long after I dealt with accepting myself as gay and coming out. Nobody was really surprised when I came out; I’m sure most people “knew” (suspected) before I did. I imagine everyone has known someone who is pretty clearly gay but is still living a straight life.

Every gay person deals with coming out differently. While I assume it’s much easier for young people today, there’s still a lot of homophobia out there - especially in the south (I grew up in Texas.) Maybe these guys were just hoping their friend would come out so he could be happier living his life more honestly.

15

I remember back in university I worked with a guy that everyone in the department knew was gay. He went to Greece one summer and came out to us when he returned. We were like, “Yeah, you’re the last one to know”. Apparently, Greece opened him up to his gayness.

16

I can recall a college friend who we were all quite sure was gay but went off and got married and had a daughter…and then finally came out to himself. So it happens.

Conversely I know that when I was in college my parents were convinced I was gay for a while…as were my roommates…and some of my friends…and yet despite understanding the laundry list of reasons why people might have thought I was gay, decades later I persist in being entirely heterosexual. So either I’m really in denial or sometimes people get it wrong.

17

“He doesn’t know he is gay, yet” – What does this mean, exactly?

Sounds like a incidence of the Group determining the individual’s identity for him.

“Oh no. We’ve decided you have to be our class clown/school slut/faggot/black sheep of the family. You can either be dead to us as a total outsider, or an insider on the terms we’ve set.”

Etiquette maven Emily Post has dictated that the only proper response to this is “go pound sand up your asses with a canoe paddle.”

18

Fascinating replies! I can always count on my fellow Dopers to edumacate me about various things.

19

I too had a very close friend in high school and college who all his friends presumed he was gay. I think I remember saying something to my mom; “I wish Tim would just come out and admit he is gay, it isn’t that big of a deal.”

I think it was at least 20 years later that I was able to find him again as owner of a bed and breakfast with his male SO.

It may have been a bit of ‘he doesn’t know it’ and a bit of he ‘didn’t want to admit it.’

20

I have known guys - happily married with kids/grand kids - who finally came out in their 50s, 60s . . . and in one case, 70s. Most of them led lives of denial, until life events freed them to come out. And most have very open, cordial relations with their families.