He said, she said... An opinion poll.

In My Humble Opinion
1

My boyfriend and I have been together for 1 1/2 years. We have a recurring argument/discussion every so often about his ex-girlfriend. They were together for about 2 years solid, and then another 6 off and on. At one point they were engaged. This all occured about twenty years ago. After she moved 3 hours away it appeared to end. She got married and has two kids.

The two of them have stayed friends all this time. Progressively, it seems, working out what went wrong between them. But, alas, it was too late because she is no longer available. She does not believe in divorce.

For whatever reason they had not seen each other for 15 years until the beginning of the year this year. Once she was here, she was all that I heard about for 2 weeks. After that they began planning how they were going to get together over the summer. First it was a movie night and I wasn’t invited because I ‘wasn’t there’ 20 years ago and would feel out of place. Then she asked him if he would take her to Cedar Point Amusement Park and he said yes. Initially I was somewhat skeptical, but didn’t say much. Then the trip turned into a 2 1/2 day trip where they would share a hotel room (in order to save money). I wasn’t invited, though, because I don’t generally ride rides. I was not happy. (Extreme understatement.)

Well, that trip fizzled out, but in the meantime we had to take a trip on business to the city where she lives. The plan was that she would come to our hotel to see us and the two of them would go out for a walk around the hotel so that they could spend some time reminiscing unencumbered by those who weren’t around ‘Back in the Day.’ And then we’d all have dinner or somesuch. Well, that too fizzled and we ended up going to her house. They had about 15 to 20 minutes of alone time when I ran off to meet gardentraveler for ice cream.

Fast forward to now. I find out that she’s coming to town again to see her dad. While she’s here, she’s going to get together with my boyfriend. I asked if Iwas invited to whatever they were doing and he said probably. The subject of Cedar Point has come up again as an option. Also a movie night and I’m not sure what else.
So. Two things here. He doesn’t see why I get upset when he wants to do this stuff with her. He thinks it’s not a big deal because she’s married and not going to leave her husband and she’s not going to ask him to leave me. Apparently this is just for old time’s sake. What generally upsets me is that my opinion on this matter seems to mean very little to him. He knows that it upsets me when he plans to do stuff with her and yet he does it anyways. I contend that he is not being fair to me. He says that he’s trying to be fair to both of us. I content that she’s obviously more important than I am if he’s willing to hurt me just to do stuff with her.

He tries to explain that they are just old friends and that they go way back and that it’s not like she’s going to rip his clothes off of him to do the deed when they are alone together. (Entirely not the point with me.)

But, I digress. On a basic level, though, he just doesn’t see that I think that it’s not normal to want to spend this much time with your ex. I mean, if you want to do something with them like movies, theme parks, etc. Then maybe they shouldn’t be your ex, but your current girlfriend instead.

I know he loves me. But… What do you guys think? Normal behavior? Who is right here?

2

What strikes me as odd about what you’ve written is that you seem to be saying that the only thing keeping them apart is that she doesn’t believe in divorce, not that she’s committed to her marriage or that he’s committed to you. If that’s the case, you have much bigger problems than the one you’ve laid out in the OP.

If I’ve misunderstood you, and you don’t have any concerns about his commitment to you, then I think you have every right to be pissed off at his behavior. He’s being incredibly insensitive and there is no need for him to be “fair” to her. And sharing a hotel room? Complete bullshit.

3

I think you need to stop worrying about who’s wrong and who’s right, and what’s fair or not fair, and start pondering what *you * can and can’t live with.

His desire to spend time with her outweighs his desire to appease you. You cannot change that, and I don’t think it matters whether or not it’s right, or fair. You either can live with it, or you can’t. That’s what matters, and that’s what you need to decide.

4

This quote really says it all to me. This is the crux of the issue, and you need to think about what this says about your relationship.

You need to stand up for yourself on this. They are practically going on dates. You are not invited? They are sharing a hotel room? Even if there’s nothing physical happening, it sounds like he is being emotionally unfaithful. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were holding hands and behaving in other intimate ways without “technically cheating”. This is not fair to you. Being friends with your ex is one thing, but when they’re going on excursions to which you are consistently uninvited, he may as well be dating her.

5

This sort of wording also leaves open the possibility of the “oops, we slept together, we got carried away” option. I’m suspicious too, especially of the amount of time they want to spend together alone, the “probably invited” comment, etc. I can understand being good friends with an ex, especially after so many years have passed, but you should want your partner to be friends/friendly with that person as well because, hello, he/she’s a big part of your life!

And sharing a hotel room? Hell no.

6

Staying friends is one thing, but actively working on their relationship? To what end?

I agree that all of you should be able to hang out and your learning about his history and how things were back in the day would probably be interesting to you as someone who cares about him.

7

Heh. Yeah, oddly enough. I do trust that he is committed to me.

Well, I agree, but I doubt that he would see it that way.

No. They’re not. They haven’t seen each other yet. And, like I said, they were only together for about 20 minutes alone the last time that we visited with her. I don’t think he’d do that.

8

Here’s a male perspective:

I think it’s natural for you to feel unsafe when your boyfriend is spending time with his ex, whether or not there’s any real threat that they’ll get together again. It’s just the kind of thing which would naturally show up large on your girl-radar. :slight_smile: It may be worrying over nothing — or your intuition may be correct. It’s perfectly normal to worry.

On the other hand, I can totally see why he would want to continue to be friends with her; obviously they had some things in common once, and it’s a good thing that he tries to maintain some good relations. Isn’t that how you’d want him to treat you, should the unthinkable happen and you break up?

There’s got to be a compromise, though. He can’t continue to invest so much time in pleasing her at the expense of your feelings. It’s an emotional investment, a commitment to give his energy to her, when that should be going toward you. You should be able to sit down together and agree on the boundaries of your relationship. For instance:

  1. Perhaps you should insist on going along. Sure, he might feel uncomfortable having the two of you in the same room together, and there might be some awkwardness at the start, but if this woman is going to continue to play such a large part in his life (and by extension, yours) then you ought to get to know her. The best part about this solution is that it’s practically a no-lose situation. If Ms. Ex doesn’t have any designs on your boyfriend (and these meetings are innocent), then you’ve gained a friend. If this woman is an evil witch who’s cheating on her husband with your boyfriend, you’ll give her a chance to see how happy the two of you are together — plus, if you always insist on going along, future visits from her might dry up. (That, to me, would be a huge warning sign — if he no longer gets together with her, because you’re always around, then there was something else going on or about to go on.)

  2. Failing that, perhaps you and she ought to hook up together for a girls’ night out. You might gain some sense of what she’s like, and whether there’s truly anything to worry about. If she’s reluctant to meet you, that’s a huge warning sign as well.

  3. If neither of the above can work, you can set some guidelines with your boyfriend that will help to increase your comfort level. He should promise to tell Ms. Ex all about you, how wonderful you are, how happy he is, and how he plans to spend his life with you. That would give Ms. Ex a clear signal that there’s no room in his future for her. Then, you can make plans with your boyfriend: if you’re going to spend 2 days with her, then he’s going to spend 4 days with you somewhere just as nice. If he’s reluctant to agree even to this, then I’d say there are serious problems.

I think your charming boyfriend doesn’t realize the extent to which he’s making you anxious and unhappy. (We guys can be amazingly clueless at times.) If you haven’t already, then spell it out in clear language for him: tell him how these meetings make you feel, give him time to digest what you said and give you an answer in his own time. Maybe something like, “I know you don’t like it when I get insecure and clingy.* I don’t like it either when I get this way, and I think there’s something we can both do to make things better. When you meet with your ex-girlfriend, I can’t help but become very anxious, and I would feel much happier if you didn’t spend so much time alone with her.”

*Insert your own feelings here as appropriate.

Frankly, I think the whole “sharing a motel room to save money” thing is a bullshit argument, but I can’t tell from this perspective whether it’s his idea or hers, so I’m not going to accuse him of being unfaithful … yet. Ms. Ex might have innocently suggested the shared accommodations for her own designs, and Charming Boyfriend is rather foolishly going along with it.

9

I’m not a jealous girl, but there is no way in hell I would put up with that. SHARING A HOTEL ROOM are you fucking kidding me?

For one thing, as KSO mentioned above, they basically agree they would be together if she wasn’t married. Where does that leave you? He makes it sound like he’s settling for you!

If everything is innocent with their relationship there’s no reason they can’t include you. For some reason they aren’t having their emotional needs fulfilled in their current relationship and have made it pretty clear that emotionally their hearts are with one another and no-one else. I’m sure it also seems very quaint and romantic to daydream about the past they shared so many years ago.

Your boyfriend clearly wants to have his cake and eat it too. I’d give his ass the boot.

10

This situation reeks of scumbaggery.

There is no way in hell two adults of the opposite sex, with a sexual history, both of whom are in committed relationships, go away for 2 1/2 days to an amusement park, and SHARE A HOTEL ROOM!

He doesn’t care about how you feel. He’s putting how he feels and how his ex-girlfriend feels above how you-- the woman he is supposedly committed to and in love with-- feel. He is putting more effort into building his relationship with his ex than he is in building his relationship with you, or else he would be putting your feelings ahead of hers.

I agree with the posters who take issue with the “doesn’t believe in divorce” bullshit. Sounds to me like the only thing stopping them from *officially * being together is that she “doesn’t believe in divorce.” In the meantime, it sounds to me like they’re already *unofficially * together. Making plans to have “alone time,” long walks around the hotel, movie nights and day trips turning into multiple night vacations, you’re “probably” invited to dinners between them? Something stinks here.

This is not normal behavior for a man in a relationship. You need to tell him: “It’s either her or me.” And stick to your ultimatum. If he doesn’t listen, DTMFA (with props to Dan Savage.)

11

Yeah, I told him I wasn’t interested in standing by and watching some star-crossed lovers scene.

He assures me that’s not the case.

12

You definitely know your situation better than I do. I hope you’re right. :slight_smile:

I think Fish’s advice is spot on. Something about the situation clearly needs to change; only you know exactly what does need to change.

13

I can’t speak to normal behavior, or who is right or wrong. What I’ll give you, though, is my perspective on how this would affect me if one of my partners behaved this way.

  1. Being uninvited after the first “we’re meeting again after 10+ years” meeting is a hard limit for me, and I wouldn’t accept it. Yes, they are certainly going to want time to develop their friendship independently after a while - but at the outset, I would need to feel like I was important enough to my partner to be included in the development or reinvigoration of an important relationship. I would definitely be unhappy if my primary partner scheduled things to do that I would enjoy, and didn’t invite me to go along; I hope that I would tell him so very openly, but I can’t guarantee it.

  2. It would bother me that it’s presented as “she doesn’t believe in divorce” that’s the safety net for their uninvolvement, romantically. If I were in a monogamous relationship, and expected that relationship to remain monogamous, I would expect that my partner’s dedication to me would be the primary safety net, not the belief system of a person I had not met and was not invited to meet. That would be a big red flag for me. Again, I hope that I would address it openly, but cannot guarantee it. That would be a lot of emotional baggage to sort.

  3. It would absolutely be a hard limit for me that he knows it upsets me and decides to schedule these events anyway. That would be a level of disrespect that I wouldn’t be able to move past. If I hadn’t addressed my upset with him, it would be understandable. However, once the problem is on the table, the idea of exacerbating the issue shouldn’t come up. Yes, it may take a few discussions to come to a workable compromise. Yes, probably there’s compromise to be made on both sides. But in my world, when one of us has a problem, the other tries not to repeat whatever is causing the problem until the new compromise is reached, so that we don’t push each other to blow-up point.

14

This is absolutely the hardest part for me. He knows that I am uncomfortable with all of this yet he says that he’s trying to be fair to both of us (me and her). But, honestly, I don’t see why she should get the privilege of fairness since they ARE NOT TOGETHER ANYMORE.

15

Did you ask him that, in those words?

16

Hmmm… Not sure. It’s a cyclical conversation. But I think the answer is something like that we are both important to him, but in different ways and so we both deserve fairness.

17

Can I borrow that line for my tomatos next year? I think it would really help them grow!
I think he’s treating you as though you’re a temporary part of his life and she’s permanent. What would it take for you to surpass her in his consideration? Can you ever? That would be the most important thing for me to know.

18

In my (albeit limited so far) experience and observations, I’ve discovered the real definition behind the phrase “I don’t believe in divorce.” It really means “I don’t want to lose my seat on the gravy train so I can get back with this guy/gal, so I’m going to do my damnedest to have my cake and eat it too.”

As the man said, DTMFA.

19

I was going to say the same thing, but much less eloquently. His ex of 20 years ago does not deserve the same consideration and fairness that you, as his CURRENT GIRLFRIEND, deserve. I’d probably sit down with him and lay out in no uncertain terms that he is behaving like someone who wants to get into his ex-girlfriend’s pants, and if that’s the case, you’re out of there. If it’s not the case and he’s just not realized what an ass he’s being, now you’re telling him. He’s being an ass and it’s time to stop. In my opinion this has strong potential to be a relationship-ending situation. Which is my long-winded way of saying that all signs are pointing to DTMFA.

20

Again, with the caveat that this is what I would hope I would do in a similar situation:
Figure out where your comfort level is. Figure out what you’re okay with him doing. Can he see her with you? Without you? For a set limit of time? In only certain situations? Find out what about the proposed situation makes you uncomfortable, and communicate your limits clearly.

Tell him what he can do that you are perfectly happy with, what he can do that you can deal with, and what you are not willing to deal with. He will either respect your limits or he won’t. If he doesn’t, I think that will tell you whose priorities he is putting first. You’ll have to figure out if that’s a deal-breaker for you or not.