Let me spare you the details of what happened to me today, because the real question I want to ask would be overshadowed by the incident.
All I will say is that my Youth Pastor “bailed” me out and he had a talk with me. He said basically that I had a “sweet spirit” but almost everyone I spent time with had a “restless, mischievous spirit”. Pastor said that either trouble makers were attracted to me or that I was attracted to them and that I needed to get some people out of my life.
All the Church talk aside he was saying that I was a nice guy but all my buddies were jerks and I should get rid of them, something that has been said many times on the SDMB.
I thought that START and Jeremiah were different, maybe not. START is what you think of me based on my posting habits and Jeremiah is the nice, mature guy you all have never met 
. Today I listened to a guy from my “real world” telling me the same thing that has been repeated on this board so many times, “find better people to spend your time with”. I tried getting nice and mature people to be down with me once before and I ended up really lonely because I alienated myself from my group and the so-called mature people that I tried to make friends with didn’t even like me, when I finally did meet some new kids they turned out to be the same as my previous group; somewhat mischievous (just think any Pit Thread involving Teens). I don’t consider myself “popular” by any means but I know enough people to kick it with that I always have a choice of places to go on like Friday and Saturday nights, I never have to stay home alone if I don’t want to. I also have 10 people that I would call my main group of friends and of those 10, one of them is my best friend, the “Brian” guy that I have mentioned a few times before. I don’t know what this says about me; aside from the fact that my friends are really immature, C- and D + types I get along with them very well but I didn’t get along with the mature, Honor Roll type kids because it seemed we had nothing in common. When I was with the “good kids”, the time would drag and I had nothing to say, when I did say something they didn’t get it.
I don’t really agree with what my Pastor sort of suggested about giving up things I am interested in for the sake of getting someone to like me or that I should have to change the way I dress and talk in order to attract better friends. I understand expanding my horizons but he basically suggested not being me in order to get new associates…dress preppy and stop going to Underground Hip Hop shows?
I am serious about getting better friends because one reason is that I don’t want to stress my Mom out any more than she already is so I would appreciate your suggestions.
How would I go about cutting off all the people that I spend time with and make new friends that are not the same as the ones I stopped hanging with? I will talk to anyone so meeting people is easy it’s just that the peeps that end up wanting to hang with me turn out to be the trouble makers.
I really need at least one good suggestion and if you have read my threads and replied that I needed to stop hanging around “fucktards” then reply to this one and tell me how to begin.
Hey START, that’s a dilemma, but if you are serious about it, you’ll find a way. First off, I don’t believe you’ll ever get anywhere worthwhile in life by not being yourself. That doesn’t mean that you can’t aspire to be something you’re not, it means not pretending to be something you’re not.
Do you have anything you’re passionate about? Hip hop? cars? stop-motion animation? art of any kind? If you care intensely about something, enough to do whatever it takes to be a part of it, you will likely find yourself surrounded by other interesting people who you have something in common with.
I suspect that the folks you’ve hanging out with, in general, aren’t “bad” people, they’re just uninspired by anything, and they really don’t give a fuck. That can lead to all sorts of trouble. If that is the case, then you may be able to avoid the problem of blowing off your old friends and finding new ones, if you can inspire the current group into doing something. Build a rocket car, make a fighting robot, turn a vacant lot into a community garden, like one of those cheesy made-for-TV movies.
I guess what I’m trying to say, is that your life is what you make it. Don’t worry too much about finding the right friends. Find the right path for you, and you’ll meet the right friends on the path.
This is really good advice.
What kind of advice is this? Underground Hip-hop shows are a bad influence now? The nerve I tell ya… :mad:
I understand what this guy is trying to tell you, but he’s going about it all wrong with preconceived notions of stuff he knows nothing about. You can be a Hip-Hop head, do that life style, and still have good friends that don’t get into trouble.
I was going to suggest the same thing as MrFantsyPants - you don’t have to change yourself, but cultivating an interest you already have may lead you to meet interested people who are into the same thing. What about clubs at school? Surely there’s something that your regular crowd dosen’t do that you’re interested in; the anime club, the school newspaper, the yearbook, a service organization? The sad thing about high school service clubs is that a lot of people are in them because it looks good on your college applications, not because they really want to help people, but I’m sure there are still some who join for the club’s original purpose. Or you could volunteer for something you care about: a soup kitchen, an animal shelter, Habitat for Humanity? Some of these places have a lot of teenage volunteers; the library I work in has a seperate teenager volunteer program. How about something like that? Some places like Boys and Girls Clubs may be looking for teenager mentors for younger kids.
How about a part time job? You’d meet people your own age who would at least be motivated to work. The downside to that is that some of them will undoubtedly also be smoking pot in the loading dock on break. But you might meet some cool, interesting people you wouldn’t have met otherwise, from different schools and such.
Unfortunately, I gotta tell you - some of what’s wrong with your friends is that they’re high school kids. Teenagers can be by nature kind of awful; a lot of them will probably grow out of it. The only thing I can really tell you is not to hang out with them just to be hanging out with somebody; it’s better to have one or two really good friends that you can count on than a lot of acquaintances who steal from people at the drive through.
I think the keyword there was “underground.” It’s understandable that this pastor would have a preconceived notion where the music is concerned - after all, START has been hanging out with friends from that arena and thus far they have not been a good influence on him.
From the little I know of the music, it’s not particularly “enlightening” - unlike “gangsta rap” though, most of it doesn’t seem to be violent or demeaning, but it’s generally just good-time music without a whole lot of proactive positive messages. Before this turns into a Great Debate, though, let me say that people will get from music what they bring to it - a person can be into gangsta music without being a gangsta, but START seems to be a basically good kid who’s a little adrift socially - in which case, he CAN be influenced by strong messages and strong friends. And if that’s so, he needs strong positive influences, and he hasn’t gotten that from the friends he’s made so far.
Music aside - because it’s a bit of a straw man argument anyway - it seems START really WANTS to be a good person and do the right things, and he’s having trouble resisting/standing up to the troublesome elements among his friends. And that’s hard for even the strongest among us to do. From previous posts, I get the impression that he wants to be well-liked and he enjoys the attention of his friends and that he has done some less-than-advisable things toward that goal… but it has worked for him, which is sending him the wrong message. What he’s not getting is positive reinforcement for his “good” behavior. One example that comes to mind immediately is when he was preaching to a little boy whose father had died. I KNOW his heart was in the right place and that he was trying to do something good there, but it didn’t work out too well in his real life or here on the boards. That’s the trouble when you’re 15 years old and you have good intentions but not-so-good judgement. On the other hand, while a bunch of us jumped on him for being rude to someone in a thrift store, his friends gave him an immediate positive reaction by laughing and egging him on. Even though he knew it was wrong to do what he did in that case, he got positive attention for it and so it escalated and continued until it was out of his control.
I disagree slightly with Mrfantsypants and Zsofia. Friends are people who have something in common with you, and in general they reflect who you think you are. Sometimes, the people you hang out with are people who don’t “belong” to any other group, so be default they become a group often without much in common or with common interests. Groups that are centered around activities, themes or some other common bits are more likley to be constructive places where the members are encouraged to grow.
The advice to hang out with people or groups with interests like yours is good, and you should take it. But you also need to look inside yourself, and figure out who you are, and who you want to be. You need to look at where you are now, and where you want to go. Are you really proud of the way you and your friends treated a group of guys in a park a few days ago? Is that who you really want to be? Or do you really want to be the more mature nice guy you described? Regardless of what you decide, you are going to upset some of your friends, because in their eyes, you are betraying the importance of what they think and do. It takes a lot of courage to actually be who you want and not bend to peer pressure, but that courage comes from the desire to be who you want to be, not who your friends want you to be.
I know how hard it is. I was an outsider at my high school, and now 25 years later feel no special attachment to the school or my classmates. I’ve only seen one of them since I graduated, and I don’t expect to see any others. I hung out with a guy not at my school, but by the time we graduated, we had drifted apart. He thought he was a blue-collar, red-neck hell-raiser, I knew I was something very different. While I went on to college, and eventually on to a career, he slid into drugs and petty theft. At age 33, he killed himself. I can’t imagine where I’d be if I had spent more time with him. Instead, I spent time around people who reinforced where I wanted to go. It was not always easy, and I didn’t always fit in, but I found the courage to stand up for myself, and leave the people who were going to keep me from being who I wanted to be.
Vlad/Igor
Firstly, I have to say, being a troublemaker is not necessarily a bad thing. 
My troublemaking is more about doing the right thing, standing up for others that are being mistreated, and standing up for myself when people try to run over me. I only use my troublemaking powers for good! Maybe you should call them ruffians, or hoods, or troublesome kids.
There, now that we’ve cleared that up, I totally agree with the idea that when you figure out who you are and what interests you and follow those interests, friends will find you. In the meantime, surely your church has a youth group?
Maybe you need to do what people who always date the wrong kind of people do - just be by yourself until you figure out who you are. You talked a lot about how many friends you have, and how you can always go out with someone - maybe you just need to do a few things by yourself for awhile to get to know yourself. Being alone sometimes is actually a good thing, you know.
START, I agree with much of what has been said. It’s very important to know who you are and that’s something that takes time, so be patient.
In addition to looking to your church’s youth group for new friends or to a job that interests you, is there somewhere that you can volunteer near you? There are lots of places that have volunteer programs for adults and many of them have programs for young people. Or you might be able to be part of their regular volunteer program. Is there a library near you? They might have a part-time position for a student. Even if there aren’t lots of other kids your age, it’ll give you a new set of people to be around. And you might even be able to work in/near their AV department so you’d be around music, if that’s what you like.
Also, about that church youth group: if they don’t have one, can you …ummm…START one? If you don’t like the current group or what they do, make suggestions for new activities. You meet lots of people and keep very busy if you become one of the organizers.
Just a few ideas.
GT
Great advice but let me ask another related quesion and add some details.
Unfortunately as of this moment if you saw my Church Youth Group outside of church you wouldn’t be able to tell that they were a church youth group by observing most of the people, it’s no different than being at school or kicking it on the corner.
I do have a part time Job at a Video Game rental place but the guys I met there are serious potheads and I’m trying to stay away from weed.
I am in a breaking crew because I can spin on my back and all that but as of now everyone else in the crew except one guy is older than I am and not by that many years, they are in their early 20’s but they see me as a little brother not someone to kick it with aside from competitions.
Even still the advice is good and it is useful.
What should be my criteria…well I know that only I can really answer that but tell me from your perspective, what should be my criteria for keeping or dropping a friend?
The 2 brothers from the incident involving the “gay couple” called me today and we talked and joked around for about an hour and they said that they thought it was “messed up” what they did to the gay guys and wouldn’t do it again, we made up for the fight. I know if I live with my Dad they will end up being my friends until something like this happens again but should I even be giving them a second chance so easily in your opinion?
I might live with my dad along with my brother who is 12 right now (a different brother). So what would you tell these 2 brothers if they came around wanting to go someplace? Would you give them a 2nd chance or is that just asking for trouble?
Being alone is very hard for me because I am a social person, I like being invited to go places and I like going places so if I had no friends at all, that would be cruel and unusual punishment. I mean have you ever been to a crowded movie theatre on a weekend by yourself?
Vlad/Igor is right. The notion “just be yourself everything will be great” is a load of rubbish, just horrible advice. Why would you possibly advise someone, “don’t try to be better, just accept your limitations and exalt in them.” Pure crap. START IS being himself, and look where it’s getting him.
Don’t be who you are. Be who you want to be.
When something is broken in your life, fix it. Don’t stick the course, change.
START, there will be plenty of “good” people who are boring or for whatever reason don’t mesh with you. But that’s not because you and good people don’t get along. It’s because the particular “good” people you met weren’t the right ones. Just keep trying. Put yourself in places where the “good” people hang out, and you’ll find people you like.
START, I don’t think it’s coincidence that you hang out here, where people regularly encourage you to change, and you end up with your Pastor telling you to change. I think you know inside that you need to change, that you’re better than where you are, and you’re putting yourself in places that can encourage you to change.
You can do this, and you’re right; it’s what you need to do. Put yourself in better places. Hang out with better people. Be a better you.
Bill, no-one said “don’t try to be a better person”. Do you understand the difference between pretending to be something you’re not (bad advice) and trying to become something you’re not (self improvement)? START’s pastor was suggesting he pretend to be something he isn’t (preppy) just to get friends. This is bad advice.
START, as for the two brothers, if they have shown a regret for their actions, and a desire to not be shits like that again, and you feel they have other positive qualities that you can build a friendship on, I would say give them another chance. If you’re just hanging out with them to kill time, I would say skip it. You’re far better off trying to find something fulfilling to do with your time, rather than just killing it.
I think this is one of the best pieces of advice so far. If you’re just killing time with a group of people, you’re not going to go anywhere, and quite possibly into trouble. But if you have plans and goals, everything you do brings you a step closer and you’ll find your life is much different, and much more fulfilling. You will naturally gravitate toward people who stay out of trouble, you’ll find opportunities that weren’t there before, and you’ll have a much better sense of worth. Find a hobby, volunteer somewhere, get involved in something that will allow you to accomplish something real and useful.
Remember my friend? He was drifting before the end of high school. He had no plans, no goals, and went from one job to another. I didn’t see him after age 18, but I suspect that in the years before he died, he felt like life had given up on him, so he gave up on life. And just like he had always done, he killed time until it killed him. That doesn’t happen to everyone, but if you look around you’ll see drifters: people in dead-end jobs for years, people who settle for less responsibility than they are actually capable of, people who can’t keep a job for more than a year, or people who find themselves in situations or jobs that they hate and have no clue how they got there.
Vlad/Igor
START, One thing that bothered me about the brothers was that they were carrying around a big squirt gun full of urine. Which means they didn’t just do bad things because it came their way; they were looking for trouble.
What other experiences have you had with them? Would you rate them mostly as
- good (where you did something good, and at the end of the day were better for it, maybe break dancing or building something or doing something that helps someone) or
- neutral (where you didn’t do anything good or bad, just kicked it and had fun) or
- bad
Note that “neutral” isn’t the same as “good”. It’s not enough that you choose friends who aren’t heading towards jail. You want friends that do real things, constructive things, beneficial things. Because that’s what you want to be.
Without knowing any more than I do, I’d have to guess that these aren’t the sort of people you want as friends. It’s good that they apologized. (and it’s VERY good that you stood up to them and told them you didn’t approve of their actions, which led to their apology). But you should pick friends that are good for you. And unless they have something positive to offer, I would say drop them.
One thing that strikes me ** START**, all these guys you have round with and get into trouble with are guys. It’s the testosterone. Try hanging out with girls for a change — not *going out with *, just being friends. Could have a remarkably civilizing effect .
I understand. I’m not social by nature, so I make a point of doing social things, because it’s good for me to step outside my comfort zone - being uncomfortable can be part of growth. Since you are social by nature, part of your growth can be just being by yourself a little. I’m not saying become a hermit; just get a little more comfortable with being alone with yourself. You might find that you chose your friends a little more carefully when you’re more comfortable being without them.
“chose”? Can we make that “choose”, please?
While we’re at it I typed “have” when I meant “hang”.