Help me Talk to Girls, Because I have No Idea What the Hell I'm Doing

In My Humble Opinion
21

Girls are just people, Uncertain Monkey, just ones with enough differences in anatomy and outlook to make things interesting. You have much more in common than what’s separates ya. As a life-long shy, introverted female type–and one with numerous friends of the male persuasion–mostly it comes down to a case of conflicting neuroses and self-consciousness.

After way too many years spent hugging walls and/or gaping like a beached carp in conversational situations (gasp, excruciating silence, death rattle) here’s what it comes down to: the other person, male or female, is 99% guaranteed focused on how he/she is coming across. Some small percentage look for mirrors to reflect who/what they want to be, but most people most folks are very receptive, not to mention pathetically grateful, if somebody else will just break the ice.

When in doubt, go for simplicity and honesty. “Hi, I really don’t know anyone here but…” Go with what’s true. I wanted to hear the music. I’ve been swamped with X and needed to come up for some air. I’m here because…; how about you? What would you be doing if you weren’t here?

As stupid as it sounds, just gently ask honest questions. The point’s to get to know them, at least a little bit, right? How can either/all/any of you know anything in a vacuum? Don’t audition for hard and fast friends, much less a soul mate. Just provide a reasonable chance for equally self-conscious people respond to a courteous chance. At the very least you’ll gain a chance at learning more about people. The few who brush you off or keep looking for a better mirror to reflect themselves…feh. It’s hand-spreading seeds into a field.

Veb

22

I think there’s been some good advice in this thread. If I were single now, this would make me want to go out there and try some of the suggestions mentioned herein.

I’m about as socially inept as the next doper, but I think I’d like to offer a tidbit of advice myself, although it probably won’t do a whole lot for my fellow socially inept boobs.

In a nutshell, I think the phrase “grain of salt” summarizes what I’d like to suggest. I know that it’s been this way in the past with me, and many people I know - you get nervous. It’s very common. But think about this from a third-person perspective for a moment. Imagine this is a movie, and you’re watching the protagonist (you), and he’s in some dire situation, like he just found out the world is going to end tomorrow but he can’t tell anyone, so he wants to make the most of his last night on earth.

He sees a gorgeous girl over at the bar, and as she turns, she catches his eye and smiles. Now, he’s normally not very good at this whole ‘talking to women’ thing, but he manages to keep in mind that this is his last night on earth, and he best make the most of it. He’s determined to find a girl that he can connect with, even though it’ll only be for a few hours, and of course, have incomparable sex with. She may or may not be, on paper anyway, the ‘perfect’ girl for him. It doesn’t matter. If they don’t compliment each other perfectly, so what? If he spends the whole night looking for the girl that fits him perfectly because of this reason or that, he’ll probably still be alone at the end of the night and have missed many great opportunities. He rationalizes that there are plenty of other women in this bar, and in many other bars, and so on. The night is still young. If she turns him down, so what? He won’t remember it tomorrow. And there are so many other desireable women out there; if she doesn’t work out, one of them will. Again, he realizes it won’t last forever, because the world is ending. They don’t have to be a perfect match.

So he’s managed to convince himself that, after tomorrow, what this girl thinks of him won’t matter. He smiles slightly. As she turns back toward the bartender, he strides toward the bar.

“Hi,” he says, with a slight smile. “I’m Andy.”

It might work the first time, it might not. But because he’s not fixated on one girl in particular and already worrying about what she’ll think of him, he eventually prevails. They may not be perfect for each other, but they’re attracted to each other and genuinely interested in each other. And so, he has the most amazing night ever, the last night on earth before the world ends.

…except, this is a movie, so you know the world doesn’t end. (Duh)

Maybe it’ll last, maybe it won’t. Maybe they’ll get married and live happily ever after, maybe they’ll have a huge fight and break up. If they do, they’ll both go out and find someone else, until eventually, they find someone to spend the rest of their live with. :slight_smile:

Man, that was really long. I haven’t rambled like that in a while. Anyway, take it with a grain of salt. Practice with people you know, until the sight of a pretty face and some nice boobs doesn’t make you go weak in the knees, and you can actually have a conversation with them. And try to remember that you have nothing to lose. If she shoots you down, she won’t remember you later, unless you just make a complete ass of yourself. It’ll be over and done and you’ll be talking to someone else that will give you the time of day.

Oh, and let her talk. If you talk some (which is more than ‘not at all’) but let her do the majority of the talking, you’ll be a good listener. You’ll get your chance to talk, and you’ll recognize it when it comes, but turn it around fairly quickly. If women don’t get to say anything for a long period of time, all that talking energy will become pent up inside them and they’ll explode. :smack:

23

I’d be traumatized, too, by a reaction like that. Ending the hijack, send me an email if you want to talk about it.

Portia, unnecessary touching of the hand may be squicky to some women. Dilation of the pupils may come from the “fight or flight” response, rather than the “how you doin’?” response. I’d hold off on that, at least initially. (I had a contractor in my house a month or so ago who tried this – I could not get him to the door fast enough.) Once there’s a relationship (or she at least knows his name), something like that would be very good.

Othersider, very well put. The only thing I’d add is that you are who you are. You should compromise things when you’re in a relationship (otherwise the species would die out), but you shouldn’t have to make wholesale changes in your personality. You’ll meet the right one eventually, and until you do, it’s not the end of the world if you get turned down.

24

My interactions with women went in stages of development and experience. Most of my bad experiences that I post about here on this board came in the first month or two when I was doing it. Right now I am much better at talking to women and experiences like that were when I was first doing it.

At the time, no I didn’t do that I just asked every woman I saw. Right now what I do is just talk to women and only ask out the women who respond really positively to me talking to/approaching them (signs like smiling alot, laughing alot, her asking her own questions, her giving long elaborate answers, her sharing personal info about herself, her blushing or giggling, etc). Only about 1/5th of women respond like that and some women who don’t respond like that may still be open to me but its worth missing out on them to avoid awkwardness. I figure if I just talk to women like people and only ask out the ones that seem to respond really positively to my approaching them that that’ll cut down on the awkwardness that I’ve had to deal with the last year or so of doing it.

Incidentally this view on hand touching vs. Campion’s is an example of the ‘100 mercurial hoops’ thing I was talking about. Everyone is different and worrying if you do something ‘wrong’ (as I said and as the 2 replies show, wrong is relative) that you’ll come across as pathetic, creepy or desperate will just kill you inside and make you hate the idea of meeting women. Your best bet if you worry about that may be what I try to do and be as non-controversial as possible and only ask out the handful of women who respond positively to being hit on.

25

UncertainMonkey, if you want to talk to a girl in your class, there are a lot of things you could do. As others have said, bring up something that happens in the class. If you have a paper coming up, find out what topic she’s decided to write about. Find out why she chose that topic. Talk about the book, see if she likes it, or if it she thinks it’s boring, or if she’s bothered to read it at all.

I have no idea where you are, but since it’s spring, the weather is getting nicer in most places. If you notice on your way to class what a beautiful day it is outside, bring that up. Instead of going with something generic, like, “This is some weather we’re having,” go with a bit of a sense of humor. I would guess that 95% of people more or less think along the same lines, so everyone else probably noticed the nice weather, your professor included. Ask if you can have class outside. Even if it’s a large class in a huge lecture hall, the absurdity of taking 100+ students outside will get a few laughs, and if the professor takes you up on it, so much the better. You could use this as a topic by bringing it up before class. Say to a girl next to you something like, “It’s too nice to be in here today … I think we should have class outside.” See what she says. Ask her what she thinks the odds are of having class outside. See if she dares you to ask. Then when the professor is setting up for class, suggest (maybe a bit faceitously), “How about class outside today?” (It helps if you have a relationship with the professor.) The professor probably noticed the nice weather, and I doubt it will be the first time they’ve ever been asked. The professor probably won’t move the class outside, for good reason, and they might even say why they won’t move class outside. If the professor has a sense of humor, it will loosen things up at the beginning of class. If the professor is stuffy, and doesn’t say anything, or dismisses it with a cold look, then you have a new topic to talk about. You can look over at the girl you consulted about the idea and make a face, or come into the next class and say, how you thought the professor would have a better reaction. Keep a sense of humor about things.

26

I don’t believe I’d ever, ever call a guy who approached me in, say, the bookstore, talked for a bit, and then gave me his number. Ever.

In that particular scenario, I think your best bet is to shoot for coffee and a relaxed conversation then and there. If she says “oh, I’d like to but I’m late for work”, then an attempt to get her number may pay off.

In general, though, I think it’s really quite impossible to meet strangers like that. Bars are a massive waste of energy, too - anybody you’d ever want to meet at a bar is having a good time with their own friends, duh. Why on earth would I want to speak to somebody who’s at a bar to meet women as opposed to hang with his friends? Activity-based structured things are really the best way I’ve found to meet people successfully - a class, either academic or otherwise, or a club, or something structured like that. I was looking around hopefully at jury duty this week, but prospects were dim indeed. :slight_smile:

27

Here’s the thing, man. You need some confidence. Chin up, eyes forward.

Lots of other people have said that women are the same as anyone else. This bears repeating: even sven:
"Girls watch the Simpsons, hate their crappy jobs, wish they could buy a better car, would like a place to go on Friday nights, read the newspaper, have cravings for McDonalds, and get bored and lonely just like anyone else does. "

Look in her eyes and treat her like she is the only person that you can see. (Well, 1-on-1, if she is with friends be nice to all of them.) Girls want to feel special and you can do that without “flirting” or pickup lines.

You say you’re timid and shy, but that it doesn’t show? Good. Fake confidence until you really have it. Now, relax, shake off the nervousness and get in there!

28

I knew that though, I even mentioned that to Stranger on a Train. I have no delusions that that would increase a person’s odds any, just that it would make it easier on both people by not making the woman try to come up with an excuse to blow a man off. That is the worst part of rejection for me, having to watch someone squirm or lie. The rejection itself doesn’t really bother me any.

All in all, even though a good deal of women will reject a stranger not all will and that is essentially what it boils down to. If you are willing to put up with 10 nos for every yes then a person can successfully pick up women. All the stuff about rejection being rare, or being yourself or following mercurial standards that vary from woman/individual to woman/individual are not really important if a person is willing to just keep trying. I am not however, I more or less gave up trying to pick up/meet women a while back and only do it sporadically now. It really is just not worth the headache.

Since the main reason women reject men is because the men are strange you have to find a way to not be strange anymore. You’d have to have some kind of commonality like a friend in common or something like that for this to work. It’d probably have to be something more personal than just having a class in common though but its the same thing you referred to when you said “Activity-based structured things are really the best way I’ve found to meet people successfully”. Having a friend in common, or a hometown in common, or anything personal in common should help alot. Impersonal things like a class in common may not work as well, but that is still better than nothing.

29

Yes, very true. That’s what I was trying to get at. The only change I was suggesting was in one’s confidence - because I think a lot of people feel innately that getting rejected is the end of the world. It isn’t, but it’s easy to feel like it is, which puts many people off. If you can make yourself realize it isn’t, I think it would make it a lot easier for one to approach women, to be his self, and to be able to show women he’s much more than a socially inept boob.

;j

30

Well that was a big mistake right there. The best way to figure out how to talk to girls is to, y’know, talk to girls. If some sweet thing pays you the honor of showing your sorry ass a little interest, you might try suppressing the gag reflex just long enough to give her a chance. If you’re that hard up for a date, you’ve got limited options for female contact, bud. If opportunity presents itself, why not be realistic and go with the flow a little.

Hell, you might find out you like her. If not, there’s no harm done. Simply showing a modicum of courtesy during the date, and making an effort at sustaining a little conversation is all anyone can reasonably ask, and if sparks don’t fly, c’est la vie. It would hardly be a waste of your time. I mean, presently, instead of going out with Plain Jane, you’re asking the impossible of an internet chat board. No amount of information you can assimilate in this environment will confer upon on you anything remotely resembling social skills and confidence. You get that through one-on-one interaction, which is, as you well know, frought with anxiety and fears of rejection.

Just think if the girls you overlooked were as afraid of approaching someone as you are. Not only would you not be getting any dates, you’d have no confirmation that anyone would find you appealing at all.

31

Hey I used to be shy and awkward around women…when I was like 14.

I think the most important thing is to really believe SHE is getting the better part of the deal by you talking to her. You’re a freakin MAN for christs sake! I’m not saying act like an asshole or anything. You just go up to a woman and say something like “hey what’s your name?..you want to get a drink sometime? No? Ok…it was nice talking to you” or “yes? Great give me your number”. It’s not rocket science. Either a girl likes you or she doesn’t. If she doesn’t, don’t waste an hour bothering her with stupid conversation.

I mean what’s the worst thing that could happen? She doesn’t go out with you even more than she’s ‘not going out’ with you now?