Well quite, but how does one determine whether what God’s word says is fitting to the individual in question without applying judgment?
Well, if you really want to say something, politely tell her that you are politically liberal and that you do in fact believe homosexuals have the same rights as hetero’s (I’m assuming you do). You then point out that pedophilia is not a homosexual trait, that it is wrong, but quite common among hetero’s too (no cite here, but I believe from what I’ve read, the percentage is the same in both groups, so, since there are fewer gays than straights, logically there are fewer gay pedophiles than straight ones.)
Basically tell her that you have your own opinions and don’t appreciate having them disregarded as she did.
Although I don’t consider myself an atheist, your friend would consider me one.
I’m not angry at God. Does your friend reject Zeus because she is angry at him?
There are certainly atheists who are angry at God. There are certainly atheists who are angry with Religion (something very different than being angry at God - perhaps something your friend does not yet realize). And there are atheists who God and Religion is emotionally neutral.
Here is my question…does she make these statements as openings to a conversation - and is the conversation two way? If so, she could be open to rational discussions on atheism or homosexuality. If not, then she probably isn’t open and you can’t change that.
That was funny about Zeus. It makes a good point, too.
No, she was Not equating homosexuality with pedophilia.
She meant that now homosexuality is accepted and “okay”, then whats next??
(the worlds going to pot, as it were)
Yes, I believe homosexuals have rights, how could I not?
I will tell her that I am for homosexual marriage, but I doubt she’ll agree with that!
But…that doesn’t make me a sinner, that I am for that.
(we’re all sinners, i know).
Well, we’re both chrsitians, and like to discuss theology.
My communist friend and I discuss politics.(he doesn’t care one way or another that I am a born again christian)
I have diverse friends.
First Freyr, what do you know about my opinions? Second, what facts and cites have you given me that should cause me to change them?
vanilla’s and Dr. Lao’s point was that they are applying judgement, but that the Bible doesn’t actually condemn judgement. After all, the verse is:
“Judge not, lest ye be judged.”
It doesn’t say “don’t judge ever”, it says “if you judge, you’re gonna be judged yourself.”
I guess Fundies feel that since they’re following what they believe is the correct interpretation of Scripture, it’s okay for them to be judged, because they’ll obviously come through God’s judgement smelling like a rose. So they can go around judging all they want to.
**Joe_Cool wrote:
First Freyr, what do you know about my opinions? Second, what facts and cites have you given me that should cause me to change them?**
The only thing I know about your opinions is what you’ve posted here on SDMB. As far as I’ve read here on the board, neither you nor **Jersey_Diamond{/b] have never changed your opinion about biblical verses. If you have, please point me to the appropriate thread.
In our encounters, I’ve tried to point out that there are other, equally valid interpretations of various biblical verses. You and Jersey_Diamond and Vanilla’s apparently don’t want to accept that idea.
You might offer this quote from Thomas Jefferson to your friend.
I am an atheist because my reason leads me there. I am not angry at God and admit that I could be wrong.
Freyr , where did I ever say I didn’t accept differing interpretations of Biblical verses??
and
Isn’t the logical inconsistency in these two statements obvious?
Perhaps she can get some comfort from this - if the person she describes as an atheist is really angry at God, clearly they are not atheist.
Back to the OP: **Help my friend-a fundie **
Why should we help her? Does she want help? I haven’t seen anything written here so far that indicates she wants help in changing her views.
What i meant was-help me think of things to show her that might expand her worldview and not be so fundamentalistic.
OK.
Show her a list of all, yes ALL, variants on the judeo-christo-muslim religion, past and present.
Then ask her why on earth is she so convinced that her particular view is the only correct vision. Might it just be a matter of when and where she was grew up? Or has she chosen her view keeping in mind other religions.
Has she ever even studied any other religions?
Encourage her to do so. If only to come to a more balanced conclusion that she is right. The effect should surely be the reverse.
AZCowboy,
You’d think so wouldn’t you. But, I’ve met people who describe themselves as atheists who are definately angry at God. Maybe they aren’t really atheists (I have been known to say if you use the label to describe yourself, that’s what you are - even if it may be technically inaccurate - and vanilla’s friend certainly wouldn’t see the difference - getting into the whole “I don’t consider myself an atheist, but her friend would” - I’m a Deist - when God and Universe are interchangable, it leaves me with more in common with the atheists than the Christians). Maybe they really don’t believe in God but are angry that he doesn’t exist. The inconsistancy you see is perfectly rational, but human beings aren’t.
Well, I’ve changed my mind on a number of things, none of which has had this message board as its impetus. But that doesn’t mean I’m closed-minded, it means that I don’t generally consider posts on a message board by people who are openly hostile to my beliefs to be a major threat to the solidity of my faith. Which brings us to the second part of my question: What has been shown to me here that is so compelling that I should have reversed my positions?
You have certainly made the claim that other interpretations are equally valid, but you have not demonstrated that to be fact to my satisfaction. Simply saying “This is an equally valid interpretation” doesn’t make it so.
And for the record, vanilla seems to have changed her attitudes so drastically that I’ve found myself wondering if perhaps andros or tracer had stolen her password and started posting under her name. I don’t understand how you can say she hasn’t changed her mind.
But I honestly don’t see, vanilla, why your friend needs to be changed. Do you want her to change because you see some fundamental flaw in her logic or her beliefs? Or do you just want her to have a more user-friendly, Politically Correct version of her faith?
Please give me examples of how I have changed my mind.
and thanks for the compliment, tracer is pretty funny and a good poster, though I am not too familiar with andros.
I would like my friend to realize that gays may not be burning in Hell forever because they are gay.
Does anyone actually Want that?
Why are you accusing me of being politically correct by saying that chrsitianity does not have to be put in a certain shaped box and whatever doesn’t fit there isn’t Godly?
and I wish there were another term, christianity is so hard to spell when you are typing quickly.
vanilla, it’s clear to me that you have several choices with your nice new friend: One, the two of you can agree to disagree; Two, you could get fed up with her and never want to see her any more, or Three, she could get fed up with you, and never want to see you anymore.
The Scripture that says “judge not lest you be judged”, is good, but obvious flaws have been pointed out in that one. I prefer the part where Jesus says “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. Even fundies can’t argue this one, because (as far as I know) all Christians agree that no one of us is without sin. I personally prefer my faith’s scripture on this which is “Speak not the sins of others, as long as thou art thyself a sinner”. This one has no wiggle room, but boy is it hard!!
Well, if you insist…Just a few examples for now, because it’s getting late:
[A national ID card is a] Bad idea. Its the start of not only Big Brother, but the mark of the beast.
jab1, I and others appreciate the truth you are typing here about “prophets”, but don’t expect to change a cult members mind. (regarding mormons)
IMHO, I believe the Bible and God creating the world in 6 literal days by faith, not proof.
I am a biblical literalist, meaning I believe that the Red Sea parted just to let the Israelis go through safely.
I could go on, but what’s the point? You have what appears to be a pretty solid body of posts carving yourself out to be what the board will generally call a fundamentalist, then sometime in the last six months, there seems to be a somewhat pronounced shift to the left in your opinions as presented in your posts, culminating in this thread where you proclaim your need to “expand her worldview and [cause her] not [to] be so fundamentalistic”.
Seems to me that you’ve changed your mind quite a bit. If I’m wrong and nothing has changed, then I’m sorry for claiming otherwise. But your posts as recorded here seem to bear out that conclusion.
so…what is wrong with being a christian who isn’t fundamentalistic?
My opinion on my faith that God created the world in 6 days, and that the rapture will happen someday soon, haven’t changed.
(though the one thread you linked to was bad-I have changed in my name calling of Mormons-it was wrong).
I haven’t changed from being a christian; I don’t see how you can say I am like tracer (no offense to tracer, of course).
Are only christians who are fundamnetalist chrsitian according to you?