Talk with GF about religion again...

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Not really a rant, and not really a question, or an opinion, or anything like that. I just need to share this. MPSIMS seems like the place, but move it if you think it’s neccessary. Thanks for listening/reading.

I (atheist) was talking to my girlfriend (Christian) again about religion today, and I mentioned that I have given more thought to it, and about it then most other people, and have not come to my decisions lightly. Then I encouraged her to take a deeper look at Christianity, not as a Christian, but as an objective viewer.

I was kinda shocked when she emphatically said “NO!” . She didn’t want to think about it. She didn’t want to examine her beliefs. She didn’t want to look at Christianity. I was shocked! I had always grew up, questioning everything, and to hear her say that there was something of this magnitude of importance to her, and she didn’t even have the slightest impulse to think about it. Are all Christians this way?

Then she proceeded to tell me that that was just the way she was, and I should respect that. I said to her that I respect her beliefs, and that I would continue to do so, if she would respect mine. She said “We’ll see…” What the heck is that supposed to mean? I am supposed to respect her delusion of a Magical Sky Pixie, but she wouldn’t respect my not believing in it? Well, that doesn’t seem very fair.

I found out today that she is a much more devout Christian then I had previously thought. I thought I had her pretty much figured out after 2 years together, but I guess I was wrong. I don’t know what happened. She is constantly flip-flopping her views on things (Premarital Sex, Abortion, Being being with an infidel, what she thinks about her family, what she thinks about my family, etc. etc. etc.), and I just seem to be along for the rollercoaster ride. Sometimes it makes me feel like I am the only stable thing in her life, and in a way, I like that, but sometimes, I don’t know if I can take it. I just don’t know what to do…

I am running the gamut of feelings here: :confused: :mad: :rolleyes: :frowning: :smack:

2

I don’t want to intrude too much, but how old are you both? It night help to figure what’s going on.

3

Me = 19
her = 20

4

I am also an atheist. Something I learned long ago was not to bother trying to shake the faith of the faithful. It just doesn’t work. So my first advice is to simply drop the subject. If you can live as an atheist and she as a Christian, and not hassle each other about it, that’s the best solution. The last woman I dated was a serious christian, who once told me I couldn’t be an atheist because I was a “good person”. We had a few words about that, she later asked me out, and the subject of religion never came up again.

If it’s important to you that she somehow “come to her senses” about christianity, then say your goodbye and find another relationship. I sense you would like to “deprogram” her in some manner. I’m afraid that the process of doing so in not compatible with having a relationship based on mutual affection and respect.

Likewise, if SHE’S unwilling to leave your atheism off the table. say your goodbye and find another relationship.

You both have lots of time and opportunity to find more compatible partners.

5

Alot of the time, the faithful won’t doubt their faiths, even if people challenge them. Besides, isn’t it obvious that there must be a God(s)? Are you sure you’re not just Agnostic?

6

My husband* is a Christian, and I an Agnostic. We discuss religion often, but I don’t think I’ve ever asked him to seriously consider his faith or something… I guess because I feel that he has thought about it and came up stronger in his faith.

I would hope that your girlfriend’s faith would only be strengthened by serious consideration of Christianity, but it sounds as though she doesn’t think that would happen.

I kind of feel that a person doesn’t really believe in God if the mere idea of thinking seriously on it scares them. Like, maybe she’s forcing herself to believe, or just pretending she does. And with all of the flip-flopping you say she does, that doesn’t sound surprising, does it?

I think the only way you can make a relationship like this work is if you are both a) strong in your own beliefs; and b) open-minded and respectful toward your partners beliefs.

Also, I have a friend from high school who is a devout Lutheran. My first engagement, my fiancé and I were thinking of doing a hand fasting (sort of a pagan wedding ritual). I was trying to tell my friend about this, and she got very upset. She refused to hear me talk about it, as though merely knowing about hand fasting was some kind of cardinal sin. Won’t she be surprised when she stands in my line this September in a Christian church and the pastor performs a combination hand fasting/eternity candle/ring ceremony!

*I always call him my husband, but we’re not yet technically married, which is why I talk about getting married this fall.

Doesn’t witnessing go in GD?

7

hand-fasting?
may I inquire?

8

handfasting.com – Warning, annoying music onload!

I’m not sure what the actual ceremony we’re thinking of having will be like because my husband’s pastor sort of made it up from othe ceremonies. I don’t even know hat an eternity candle is. But they tell me it’s beautiful. And, of course, I’ll find out before the actual wedding.

Fixed URL tags - UB

9

Coupled with your other thread , I’m not sure you two are long for this world.

That and I’m now convinced that you live in Grand Rapids. It’s the only place in Michigan where bi-polar Christians live.

PS My parents live there (and so did I for two years) but they have their own brand of lunacy…Catholicism. :smiley:

10

Sounds to me that you are the one that is trying to get her to convert to your way of looking at religion (it is for the birds). If she didn’t or doesn’t keep after you to reexamine your atheist beliefs, what is the problem? On the other hand it is going to cause trouble some time down the road, so this is when you might as well settle the matter. Just remember you are the one that is insisting that you are the one that has seen the light.

11

Religious faith is not an objective process, and to try to understand it that way misses the point. Religion can be understood objectively, religious faith cannot. It’s like being “objective” and “rational” about whether you are in love.

12

kniz, Walloon

Chekmate said:
“I am supposed to respect her delusion of a Magical Sky Pixie”

And you have to understand that this is what it is like having been bathed in the atheistic light. Our belief system is understandable objectively – I find the “question” arises on an almost daily basis, I am not in denial, I do not refuse to look at it.

“God does not exist.”
That is a rationally, testable assertion. Please challenge us if you think we’re faking it – we are awake and doing our damn-dest to make sense of this thing. Please if we are lying to ourselves then tell us.

Oh, and do unto others…

13

I think she sees this as an attempt to proselytize your atheism. If she believes in God, why should you try to dissuade her? Does she try to convert you? And if neither of you is satisfied with the other because of this issue, it seems that you shouldn’t be together. The only thing you can do is agree to disagree.

StG

14

I’ve got a very short list of necessary preconditions to a viable long-term relationship:

  1. Mutual trust and respect
  2. Shared values/goals/worldview
  3. Enjoyment of each other’s company

I don’t see a whole lot of mutual respect here - of each other’s differing worldviews. That’s two out of three down the tubes, and you really need all three of them working for you to make it in the long haul.

I think you need to break off with her so each of you can find a partner who is coming from the same place you are. My 2¢, anyway.

15

“Magical Sky Pixie”?

If you say this sort of derisive and disrespectful thing to her (instead of just to us), then no wonder she won’t talk about it with you. Maybe she’s just smart enough to want to avoid the ensuing fight. Because you say you respect her beliefs, but your post indicates you don’t. So now the question is whether or not you have succeeded in pretending you do. Your post, and her reaction, tend to indicate you have not succeeded in that.

16

Checkmate:
I have been in the sort of “mixed relationship” that you describe for a very long time now. We are very happy, but: Go back and read RTFirefly’s list, it’s a good one. We have all those things unless religious belief is included in “Worldview”.
Tolerance of one another’s beliefs is a must. There will be times when she will expect you to accompany her to church. You will need to behave in a willing and respectful manner. She will have to refrain from asking you to participate in religious ceremonies that she considers non-essential.
References to God as a “Magical Sky Pixie” won’t get it!
I can tell you right now, if you insist on being the bearer of a flaming torch for the cause of atheism, this relationship is doomed. Considering the tone of your post, you both will probably save a lot of time and heartache by ending this one, so each of you can find a person that you are compatable with.

My .02 worth.

17

I’m an atheist and a skeptic. My wife is a pagan. We differ in worldview. For instance, I believe in an objective reality that can generally be measured and documented. She believes that reality is inherently subjective and can be changed by force of will. This isn’t generally a problem; we don’t bullyrag each other about it. We respect each other and our boundaries, even though we disagree.

However, it does come up now and again. As an example, I am of the opinion that a carfully managed budget is the best way to manage ones money. She believes that casting a spell to resolve the issue is a good solution. In these circumstances, we have to discuss it and work something out. However, there’s still room for compromise. If she wants to perform some ceremony, I’m not going to stop her, and she’ll listen when I want to talk budget. It’s not an ideal arrangement, but then, few marriages are ideal, are they?

If you want your relationship to work, Chekmate, don’t ask her to examine her beliefs. Christianity is a part of who she is. If Great Cthulhu himself rose from the sea and told her he was the one true god, she’d still be a Christian. She wouldn’t think “Hey, new evidence! Let’s think about this!” If you can’t stomach her christianity, you should quit the relationship, and the sooner the better. Oh, also, the “We’ll see” could be referring to if you ever want to marry her, she and her family may demand you convert. If you’re serious enough to consider marriage, consider it with someone other than her.

18

What Jodi said. In fact, if I were your girlfriend, I’d be pretty insulted, to say the least.

19

It is strange to me that you would want to be with, and consider yourself compatible with, someone with such a radically different outlook on such a personal, important topic.

I like RTFirefly’s list.

20

Thanks, jin! I came up with that list around 1983, give or take, and it seems to have withstood the test of time.

I think the only change from my original version has been the addition of ‘goals’, which was partly a sneaky way to deal with the fact that irrevocable disagreement on ‘do you want children?’ could be a deal-breaker with a couple that was extremely compatible otherwise.