Wow, a bit defensive, aren’t you?
You asked for evidence that you have changed your mind, and I provided it. And it’s funny that 4 posts ago, you considered comparison to tracer to be a compliment, and now you don’t sound quite so happy about it.
I didn’t say that you’re not a Christian, I said your posts have taken a pronounced swing to the left. Simply pointing out the difference between your “fundamentalistic” posts and you current desire to cure you friend of her fundamentalistic beliefs.
No, I’m not defensive.
tracer is a good poster, but you seemed to be claiming I was posting like an atheist or agnostic (isn’t that was tracer is?)
tracer?
My opinions have not shifted to the left, biblically or politiclaly for many years.
My posts on the rights of homosexuals have stayed the same the 3 years I’ve been posting here.
What? you want me to become a republican or something? 
**Vanilla wrote:
Freyr , where did I ever say I didn’t accept differing interpretations of Biblical verses??**
You didn’t. I was simply saying that Joe and Jersey would be very unlikely to change their opinions on homosexuality and from what you’ve told us of this lady friend, neither would she. Sorry if you thought I was implicating you in that statement.
**Joe_Cool wrote:
Well, I’ve changed my mind on a number of things, none of which has had this message board as its impetus. But that doesn’t mean I’m closed-minded, it means that I don’t generally consider posts on a message board by people who are openly hostile to my beliefs to be a major threat to the solidity of my faith. Which brings us to the second part of my question: What has been shown to me here that is so compelling that I should have reversed my positions?**
Which I basically agree with. I’m not asking you to change your opinion (at least not in this thread). What I was trying to say was that this lady friend of Vanilla was unlikely to change her opinion, no matter what arguments she (Vanilla) gave her. Therefore, it was probably a waste of time to do so. I alluded to you and Jersey_Diamond were of the same mindset as this lady friend. That’s all.
Okay, then, thank you.
I’ve printed this out and am mailing it to her (I won’t see her for a bit, relatives are coming in town, and its not like she calls me all the time).
Will report back and comments.
Ask her, where in the bible does it say that it is “divinely inspired,” or something to that effect.
Ask her, where in the bible does it say that it is “divinely inspired,” or something to that effect.
I have never seen anybody like that. I have seen a number of them, variously, angry at Christianity, christians, and various denominations.
I would like to meet one some day.
This is in an internally nonconsistent statement–how can one be angry at something one believes does not exist? I’m an antheist because I’m certain that Yahweh is a myth. I’m not angry, I’m apathetic.
As for helping your friend, it’s difficult to get people to reconsider their prejudices. To quote a cliche, “change must come from within.”
There’s a raft of books I could recommend, but since I don’t know your friend’s taste in books or level of education, I don’t think any books I can recommend would be useful.
There’s a very good movie that you might get her to watch, Pleasantville. Released in 1998, Pleasantville stars Reese Witherspoon and Tobey Maguire as two 1990s teens who are magically transported into a black-and-white 1950s TV show. At first, the two teens find the inhabitants of the TV show town locked into rigid, foreordained behavior, with no choices or freedom of thought. As the two teens open the townsfolk’s minds to new ideas, the town begins to change from black and white into color. At the end, the whole town and its inhabitants have been transformed into glorious Technicolor because they have opened their minds and allowed individual freedom of thought and expression to burst forth.
The movie is a metaphor about the transformation of America’s cultural landscape from 1950 to 2000, but it would serve equally well to show the possibilites that exist when one changes from a dualist, b/w pattern of thought to a more open, inclusive worldview.
** KJV 2 Timothy 3:16** All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
NIV 2 Timonthy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
HG.DCT 2315. theopneustos, theh-op’-nyoo-stos; from G2316 and a presumed der. of G4154; divinely breathed in:–given by inspiration of God.
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
okay, Jersey, so we are still to kill witches?
In that case, why are there so many contradictions in the bible?
Or kill people who work on Sabbath day. 
Ah but would that be Saturnday or Sunday?
Personaly I would vote for Moonday.
Oops that wicca stuff is rubbing off, i think.
vanilla, why do you ask such silly questions? I thought you were a christian. You should know as well as I know that we aren’t to kill anyone. We are to tell them the good news and what God expects of us. If they refuse to accept it, God will deal with them.
The main problem I have with you is that your questions aren’t honest questions. You are trying to catch me at something. You want to be able to say, “look at the bad christian”. Everything that I believe is biblical and not something that just sounds good to me. When you give me questions like that, I don’t even want to answer them. If someone who is non believer asked me that question, I would have taken that as a serious question. If you recall, the Pharisees used to follow Jesus around asking him trick questions to try and trap him into a bad answer. Just like you do.
If you can’t be real with me, please don’t ask me anything.
But I expect that from you, who called me and Joe_Cool satanists. I’d probably be offended, but fortunately it doesn’t mean much coming from a reed that sways any way the wind blows.
I have been over this before on this board. If you are really interested in the answer, do a search.
Let me get this straight: You know the bible is divinely inspired because the bible says it is, and it must be right because it’s divinely inspired? Have you ever heard of circular reasoning?
In re what Jersey posted, and the reactions to it, would someone do a search for a post Duck Duck Goose did on the subject of what fundamentalism has meant over the years. It’s worth reading, and may clarify a lot of what Joe Cool and Jersey Diamond (and for that matter vanilla) have been saying that I suspect is vastly misunderstood by the rest of us.
ah, more insults from a fellow christian. Tis to be expected, at least from you, Jersey.
Lets have a cite then, about my swaying any which way the wind blows. Thank you.
You, madam, are not one to be complaining about insults from a “fellow Christian.” My fellow Christians do not smugly call each other satanists. But I suppose 'tis to be expected, at least from you, vanilla.
Why don’t you work a bit on your humility?
BTW, since you’re so demanding about cites, let’s see one regarding your claim of satanism.
I’m waiting.
Joe and Jersey, although I don’t feel that vanilla was over-charitable in asking it, it’s something of a fair question. If the Bible is to be taken as the Word of God in some strict sense, as you have effectively asserted, then what about passages like that, or the ones about killing all Amelekites including women and children? The horrific lines that end Psalm 137?
I’m not out to accuse you of anything evil – but from the POV of learning more about how you read Scripture, I’d like to see your views on what a Christian is supposed to do about passages like those. And I ask in order to learn, not in order to humiliate
O.K. I’m a non-believer, and I’m asking. And it is a serious question. Are we to burn witches (Ex. 22:18), stone adulterers (Lev. 20:10) and people who work on the Sabbath (whichever day it happens to be) (Ex. 35:2)? Should I assume it’s okay to own slaves, as sanctioned by Leviticus 25:44? Is playing football an abomination (Lev. 11:7-8) equivalent to homosexuality? And do I really have to detest storks (Lev. 11:13-19)? Seriously? Storks?
Or perhaps you’re of the opinion that all of these are examples of Old Testament rules, the part of the Law that Jesus fulfilled and which are no longer binding on anyone today. Except circumcised men (Gal. 5:3).
And the main problem I have with fundamentalist Christianity is that it doesn’t appear to derive from an honest reading of the Christian Bible. Rather, it appears to this apostate to be a highly selective interpretation that is heavy on the judgment and light on the love. Heterosexual fundamentalists saying that the Biblical proscriptions against homosexuality are still in force while ignoring the hundreds of other, less (how shall I say this?) convenient rules, strikes me as intellectually dishonest, at best.
If you’re going to say that you believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, that’s fine. But then, you should really do it.
And with respect to 2 Timothy 3:16, surely you’re aware that, to be consistent, if you’re going to accept one book that claims to be inspired Scripture, you’re going to have to accept any book that makes that assertion. How do we know that the Q’uran, the Book of Mormon, etc. are not God’s Word, but the Christian Bible is?