Maybe it’s because I’m tired of the shit “Christians” get away with. People who can say, “You’re going to hell” and “I love you” in the same breath have been getting away with murder (literally!) for centuries. They have STOLEN words like “witness”, “love”, and “council”.
It is not enough that their delusions have a large following; they wish to force others to join up. They would use the first amendment to get their way, then abolish it the first chance they get. Any criticism is viewed as oppression, any differing opinion is viewed as sinful, and anyone not of their sect is viewed as the enemy.
I am an atheist. This is called self-defense.
Hi. Yes, actually, I DO pick words out of a hat! It’s amazing how it becomes a coherant whole, isn’t it? Everyone IS sinful, they just don’t realize it. I can’t Prove there is a hell, but if you are wrong, your mistake is irreversible. Love ya, Vanilla
Slythe: Actually, I’m an atheist too, and find people like Arg repellant and dangerous. However, I think he might have learned something here and don’t want to see all of that effort wasted by antagonizing him needlessly. I’m sure he still has hold firmly to is beliefs, but he now knows that ‘converting’ people isn’t just a matter of talking a lot and quoting the Bible, that other people have other beliefs about which they feel just as strongly as he does, etc. I’m sure he hasn’t given up, but I’d rather see him exploring the board and learning more about other people than spending all of his time preaching and arguing. You never know, WE might convert HIM!
sosumi
coosa, I could go for that if he hadn’t tried this before. He pretends to be tolerant, people ask him questions, he recites the same scriptures over and over, shows UTTER amazement that we don’t fawn over his wisdom, then he tells us we’re going to hell. Typical right-wing “christian” trick of pretending to listen to other points of view for the sole purpose of weakening the resolve of the “sinner”. Rev. Moon would be proud of him.
“Incidentally, I understand that some ecclesiastics declared recently that hell is
not a sulphurous fiery pit but merely the state of being denied the presence of God.”
– matt_mcl
I thought Christopher Marlowe said that 400+ years ago. It’s taken the ecclesiastics a while to catch up …
Perhaps you’ve been away for awhile. I’ve basically been banished to the GD Forum, where I can spread my “poisonous venom” upon the teeming hundreds. I can, however, join you fine people in the Pit, as long as I don’t witness. Anyway.
Slythe: You just don’t have a clue about me do you? You can’t possibly understand what I’m doing, or why I’m doing it. And you know what? That’s ok. I don’t expect an atheist to have a clue. Just know this: We (Christians) don’t hate you. We hate sin. We don’t hate other view points. And we’re not trying to “get away” with anything.
It seems that you think this is all political. You said that I am “right wing.” And then you spoke of amendments…etc. Let me ask you a question Slythe: What’s wrong with one person, trying to show another person a better life? What’s wrong with a little love? What’s wrong with trying to help your fellow man? You don’t have to accept Christianity, as I’ve already said a million times. Just realize that WE’RE not the bad guys.
Maybe I’m talking to a brick wall, who knows. It’s funny Slythe, because you talk about ME being intolerant. But it looks like it’s YOU, who’s ranting and raving over there.
Adam
In my last post I said, “WE’RE not the bad guys.”
Well, I think I need to expand on that. Even though people are inherently bad, it’s not people that Christians hate. What we hate is SIN, and the power of Satan and his demons on individual’s lives. If I witness to somebody, it’s not because I think they’re a bad guy, and I want them to join the “good guys.” It’s that I want them to turn away from Satan, and turn toward God, and Jesus.
Ok, I think I’ve gone far enough without venturing into the realm of witnessing, so I’ll call it quits for this post. I just wanted to clear that little statement up.
Adam
ARG, you have not been banished anywhere. You are governed by the same policies as everyone else on the board; you can post, chat, and argue in all the forums, just like the rest of us. The only new stipulation is that religious witnessing be confined to GD. Actual debate and discussion are not affected.
Some people here are saying that you are intolerant. It seems that you are dismissing that as a gratuitous insult; perhaps you don’t understand what they mean when they say it. I’ll try and restate it in different terms.
Please do not take this as a personal attack, it is an honest attempt at explanation.
Your view of the world is set. In other threads, you have stated that there is absolutely nothing which would make you change your mind about your religious convictions. When asked what you would think if God himself told you that you were incorrect, you said that God would never do that, and any being that would, must really be a servant of Satan pretending to be God.
So if someone’s beliefs do not exactly coincide with yours, no matter what that person can possibly say to you, you will refuse to acknowledge the slightest possibility that their beliefs could be correct. You will continue to insist that your own religion, and your own interpretation of your holy text, is the only correct belief system that can conceivably exist.
From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary, http://www.m-w.com :
tol·er·ance, noun
Definition 2a: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one’s own.
You do not sympathize with people whose beliefs differ from your own, therefore you are by definition not tolerant. It’s as simple as that.
You know, ARG220, that’s at least twice today that you’ve “quit” trying to convert others to your narrow brand of christianity.
I also realize how much easier it is to attack someone when you can pretend that person is influenced by “demons”.
Yep. That’s why Rev. Phelps ‘n’ Pals at godhatesfags.com picketed Matthew Sheppard’s funeral, said he got what he deserved, said his parents got what they deserved for letting their son be gay, and published on every flier he sends out a reminder of how many days Matthew Sheppard has been in hell.
I now call upon the spirits of Nostradamus and Kreskin to help me predict that Adam will tell us all the reasons that Phelps is not a “real Christian.”
pl, I have a question.I started school in 1963, which I believe is the year prayer was ruled out of schools. Did they all have to say a prayer in the morning? To who? It seems like it would be like the pledge of allegiance. And what of that? What if a pupil is a communist or american indian and doesn’t like what the pledge says?
I feel sorry for you, ARG. I thought you’d be gone by now, preaching in some other MB.
But since you’re back, let me ask you something: how come you never (with ONE exception) respond to me? how come all the questions I’ve asked you have been left unresponded?
You afraid of debating with me? Do you sense the ex-christian in me, or what?
Vanillanice:
Not every school had public prayer. Those that did used a lot of different forms, based on the community. Sometimes the Our Father, sometimes a recited text from a religious book or magazine, sometimes an impromptu prayer by the principal or a selected teacher or student. One of the points forgaotten by people who equate the “loss” of prayer in school with the dissolution of society and morals is that it was never a universal event. It was widespread, but there were plenty of schools where they had no prayer and turned out kids just like the praying schools.
As to your Pledge of Allegiance question: at the height of WWII, the Supreme Court actually had the wisdom to support the idea that a student could not be penalized for refusing to say the Pledge. (The student was, I believe, a Quaker who objected on religious grounds.) It always amazed me that the “good” Americans know so little history that they got hauled back into court for penalizing kids during the Vietnam conflict and I have seen the same stupidity re-enacted in just the last couple of years.
The Pledge is not even a legal document. It hardly qualifies as an elected official refusing to take an oath of office. Yet idiots still think that making kids conform to their shallow views of patriotism will create better citizens.
E1skeptic:
Don’t feel bad. He has refused to respond to any actual questions posed by active Christians, too. He simply proclaims that we all have closed hearts and changes the subject (before we point out his errors, again).
Tom~
vanillaice, maybe if you didn’t speak in code I could understand what the hell you’re asking, but I’ll give it a whirl anyway. . .
You still seem to be under the misimpression that it is against the law to pray in school. I can only, for the umpteenth time, reiterate that it is not. Cumpulsory prayer is, of course, illegal, as it violates the First Amedment both as written (establishment clause) and as interpreted by the courts (that government may not give preference to religion over nonreligion).
Beats me. I was born in 1969. I guess you can check Tom’s answer.
I would imagine Allah, Satan or the Goddess, since we are such an ecumenical society. Did you have a point with this question? Something along the lines of “God exists because people pray to him?”
Uh, no, it really wouldn’t for any nunmber of reasons. For one thing, the pledge, before Eisenhower defiled it, does not compel recognition of a deity. For another, loyalty oaths died with McCarthy.
The courts have ruled on this, as Tom also pointed out.
Hey, if you want a theocracy, either start another country or convince the majority of the country to void the Constitution. This is America, pal, and as long as I live here, it will remain a secular government.
Sorry I didn’t answer you E1. (By the way, do you actually care that I don’t answer you? Or are you just trying to lure me into another argument.)
Anyway, you said:
I agree with you E1. Most people who feel strongly about ANYTHING believe that thier way is the right way. Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve ever said that I’m intolerant, or not. Have I?
Have any of you heard of “dc Talk?” Well, dc Talk an extremely popular Christian band. One of the lead singers once said this,
“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today, is Christians; who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world, simply finds unbelievable.”
You know what? I don’t want to be one of those people. And the people who “deny Jesus by their lifestyle” have become tolerant of the world today. As Christians, we are called to go out and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are called to be IN the world, but not OF the world.
If every Christian behaved the way most of you want me to behave, I believe God would have to destroy the world because of the wickedness that would abound. We are not going to leave the world alone. We will not tolerate sin, and we will not allow Satan to grasp the world even tighter. You may hate us, mock us, call us crazy. You may be afraid of us, and want us all locked up. But we will not be quiet. And if we lie silent, then the rocks will cry out in our place.
Many Christians are total fanatics, that do crazy, and very stupid things. But they fail to realize something. The war that we wage is not physical, or carnal. But the war is fought in the spirit. I will not go and bomb an abortion clinic, because that is absolutely insane. I will not wear a sign that says, “I hate gays,” because that is not what this is all about.
I must say that I’m just as sick as all of you about what goes on in the “name of God.” Look at David Koresh, or those wacky people who pay attention to that Rev. Phelps. (by the way, is that guy for real? Somebody actually has a website called “godhatesfags?!?!”) It all makes me sick.
Ok, I think I’ve ranted enough. At least I’m doing it in the Pit. And perhaps I’ve made myself look even more foolish just now…but that’s not what concerns me. What concerns me is that most of you think I’m like those crazies. Yea, and PLdennison was right in his little prediction. All right. This post probably made no sense at all. I just needed to fly off the handle for a second. Hopefully, one of you understood what I’m trying to say.
Adam
ARG220 posted:
If it weren’t so sad, I’d laugh at this. Adam, you don’t want to be one of those people, yet you are. You’ve posted some of the most intolerant and bigoted garbage concerning religion in general, and Christianity in particular, I’ve ever seen.
If you truly don’t want to be that way, why do you persist?
Monty said:
Now Monty: You are a person who studies the Bible, right? I know you’re Mormon, and what not, but surely you’ve studied the Gospels and seen the life of Jesus. So let me ask you a few questions. And answer me honestly. Did Jesus tolerate sin? Did Jesus let the Pharisees, and Saduccees get away with anything? Tell me, how many times did Jesus Himself say the words, “Woe to you.” And while you’re at it, why don’t you tell me what happens in Matthew; chapter 11, verses 15-20. (For those who don’t know, this is when Jesus overturned the tables in anger at the temple in Jerusalem)
My point is that while Jesus was (is) perfect, and blameless, He still hated sin, and was intolerant of it. He LOVES the sinner, but HATES the sin.
And that is how I want to be. I want to be like Jesus.
Adam
Jewish?
Or dead?
Jess
Full of 'satiable curtiosity
And good with wood.