I agree, and I really hate this narrative that it was all up to Hillary to be a good enough candidate to win. Every person who voted for Trump did a shameful thing.
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I agree with this very, very strongly. Wow!
So did everyone else who could have worked for and voted for the only viable alternative, but did not. Their shame is of a different character, but it is still shame.
And it’s one reason for some who so vociferously cling to denunciations of Clinton as an awful, horrible, no good, all her own fault candidate – deflects from their own guilt and shame.
I would like to know too, so we can put the issue to rest.
So do I. Completely.
Agreed. Mike doesn’t have to go to hell.
And they can go to hell.
Because in the end, look at the piece of shit we now have in the White House.
Well, shit! If we could get three to five million illegal voters to the polls, why not ten or twenty?
I look at it a little differently: Every person who did not vote for Hillary Clinton in the general election did a shameful thing.
My stepson is special needs and also is a Naive American. He might have his healthcare cut when he is an adult (he is a teenager on the cusp of being an “adult” for these purposes). He might find assistance harder to come by. But no matter how much Trump guts his ability to live a normal life, no matter how much climate change messes up the world for him and everyone else Trump fucks up for my son and everyone else, no matter how many negative things my son inherits because of Trump, I can look my son in the eye and say “I did everything I could to stop it.”
People who abstained voting for Hillary Clinton, even if it was not to vote for Trump but who assisted him by wasting a vote on a third party loser or by not voting at all, they did not do all they could to stop him. When real evil and incompetence came, you decided a principled stand was more important than stopping it.
They deserve shame and scorn for that.
I am willing for forgive them if they at least learned from it, and will vote accordingly in the future elections. But the ones who still, even as Trump and his administration does at least one reprehensible thing every single day, haven’t learned from it? They can go to hell.
That includes Bernie, of course. he evidently hasn’t learned. So fuck him.
I give a pass to people who aren’t American citizens or had not yet reached the age of 18. YMMV though.
I don’t think I need to be like Saint Peter judging each and every human here (though that would be fun). I don’t blame people who couldn’t vote in their election, of course. But I think some of this is implied, or can be.
I hope it was clear I was kidding you…
Sorry. Poe’s Law.
I am intrigued by the extreme negative reaction on some posters’ parts to the Politico story originally cited here, which some people clearly think was a hatchet job of sorts. It’s possible it was a less than fully unbiased article, but good Lord, people, we have had folks here linking to sites like US Uncut and Films for Action as though they are legitimate journalistic sources, and any sins the Politico article commits are penny-ante in comparison.
Anyway. We could do a lot worse. And we have.
What strikes me most about the whole story here is how much these allegations have brought out the worst in Sanders. They really aren’t the worst accusations possible. I don’t think anyone is claiming that he asked for Russian interference on his behalf after the NH primary, or claiming that the senator even knew anything about what was going on. But nonetheless, here we see Sanders responding much as he did at certain points during the primary season: thin-skinned and combative, lashing out at Clinton and at the media, convinced that everybody is picking on him, and issuing statements that put him in the best possible light even if they play fast and loose with the truth. It’s like Trump Lite.
I don’t know. Maybe he thinks that acting this way will help him in a potential 2020 run for President. Maybe he’s right. Seems to me though that if he wants to improve on 42% of the pledged delegates and the popular vote, he might be well advised to try a different strategy next time.
I actually do think that given his trip to the Soviet Union, the investigation should be open to all possibilities including active collusion by Sanders.
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You are so surprised! 
(I missed a bunch of posts, sorry for the follow-on.)
JSLE, I do agree with your expanded version that includes people who voted for third-parties. I don’t think they did quite as bad a thing but still not good for sure. What they did is pretty much on a par with not voting at all, which is also not good—unless you would have voted for Trump, in which case it’s a little better. Although it seems paradoxical to say someone who was going to vote for Trump and then didn’t vote at all is better than someone who would have voted for Clinton but didn’t. The effect is better but the person is not.
So maybe I can say this. If you knew how bad Trump was but did not vote for Hillary Clinton, shame on you for your callous and reckless negligence. If you didn’t know how bad Trump was, you are either an idiot or a bad person.
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In many ways, it’s far worse. If this board is about eradicating ignorance, those voters were ignorant of many things:[ul]
[li]Duverger’s Law, which explains how our winner-take-all system works and has more or less worked since our formation.[/li]
[li]Hillary Clinton’s actual record. Almost everyone who had a negative opinion of her had one due to decades of Republican propaganda, over a year of Russian propaganda and a mainstream media that falsely equivalated actual Donald Trump scandals with things Hillary supposedly did that were discredited, overblown or simply false.[/li]
[li]The fact that all of the third parties were objectively terrible. Regardless of whether they could win, they were shitty candidates. Anyone who thinks that Jill Stein would make a good president really doesn’t know anything about her. Johnson was only marginally better but at the end even his own Vice President was practically endorsing Clinton, showing how scared they were of a Trump presidency.[/li]
[li]The idea that having someone as bad as Trump would cause a reaction where suddenly the Democratic party would go left. There is no historical precedence for that. When a party loses they attempt to appeal to the voters of the party they lost to which is why after 12 years of Reagan/Bush it took Bill Clinton’s “triangulation” to win the White House back. Even Barney Frank, who frequently sparred with Clinton, admitted in his memoirs that Clinton was about as liberal as he could be and still win the presidency.[/ul]The amount of ignorance a supposedly liberal-minded person needed to decide that a vote for anyone but Clinton was good is staggering.[/li]
If they haven’t learned this, even now, they’re ever worse. Judging from some of the people in this forum, a bunch haven’t learned. Even now. So fuck them.
I seriously dislike the Clintons (both of them). Heck, I think Obama was a big let down.
That said I am aware of all the above and voted for HRC in the general election.
And that said it infuriated me because I feel that was her calculation all along. Rather than courting my vote it was more what else are you going to do…vote for Trump?
The Clintons are far from liberal and moved the center to the right with their Third Way politics. Her and her ilk did a massive disservice to this country.
All that peace and prosperity was just maddening, wasn’t it?