JSLE, I don’t disagree with much that you said (and until a few days ago, I wouldn’t have disagreed even about Hillary’s corruption—more on that in a sec). But surely you don’t deny that voting third party is not as bad as voting for Trump? Just mathematically, it takes two people to flip from Hillary to Stein to make the same impact as one person flipping from Hillary to Trump.
But in all honesty I do have to admit that a few days ago a Bernie supporter who’s a Facebook friend finally convinced me that Hillary was guilty of significant wrongdoing. Not about the nothingburger of the email server, or the less-than-nothingburger of Benghazi. But he showed me solid evidence that someone sought a meeting with Hillary when she was Sec’y of State, got turned down, then gave a quarter million to the Clinton Foundation, someone from the foundation emailed Hillary to say he was a “friend of ours” and could you meet with him? She then agreed. That really is selling access and it’s not good, Bob.
Which is not to say that it remotely approaches the magnitude of Trump’s corruption (which is not even to mention his incompetence, idiocy, and malodorousness). But that’s more a reflection of how unimaginably awful Trump is than any positive reflection on her.
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That’s pretty pathetic. Even if you assume that both Clintons are corrupt as Hell, do you honestly think $250,000 is enough to influence a former President and a sitting Secretary of State?
The .Clinton Foundation is corrupt’ garbage has been circulating on right wing media forever. It is too bad that your Bernie Bro friend is such an idiot as to believe it. I’m not going to bother to google this bullshit, but I think even Bernie Bros might understand the difference between not meeting someone while you serve in an important job versus shaking hands and making small talk at some charity event.
And as for the prosperity I think whoever was president in the 90’s was going to enjoy the dot com boom and whoever followed was going to get the bust.
If you mean to say that at least they were better than Bush or Trump I do not disagree but that is damning with faint praise.
I had some of the details wrong, but this WaPo article makes it clear to me that if the head of the foundation reminded Hillary that someone was a “friend of ours”, they might get an official meeting at State (not a chat at a fundraiser, as you characterized it) even if they previously had been denied:
As long as that’s the case, you don’t need to go to hell. But you should be in purgatory for the rest.
All along? Because Trump was always going to be the candidate she was up against? How remarkably prescient of her considering most everyone didn’t give him a real chance until somewhat late in the game and there were still rumblings that Republicans were gonna #NeverTrump as late as the convention.
Anyway, here was 60 reasons to vote for Hillary Clinton (not just against Donald Trump). While someone at the Daily Kos compiled this list, here’s her own website with her positions. Oddly enough, not a single one of them says “I’m not Trump.”
I’m sure Sainted Bernie would have had us all singing kumbaya over smores. Oh wait.
Also, there is ample evidence from Hillary’s tenure as Secretary of State that diplomacy. I do realize that someone who thinks that Bill Clinton circa 1992 and Hillary a quarter century later are the same person might not realize this. Still, others do.
Of course someone who thinks Obama was a warhawk (which you didn’t say but the context clues of your posting here makes me think that’s not far from the truth) would decry anyone who doesn’t swear to stamp out the military industrial complex. It’s another debate but I’ll just say the difference between how Obama carried out his role as Commander In Chief was vastly different than that of his predecessor and much more preferable so I would have rather taken that instead of what we had before or now.
I didn’t vote for Clinton in the general election. I don’t consider it shameful since my state was won by Clinton, and I knew that it would going into the election. I voted for the 3rd party candidate in the hopes that he would get enough votes for his party to receive matching federal funds. I don’t consider that shameful.
No, strategic, just a bit risky. Had your state not gone for Clinton, at that point I still wouldn’t consider that shameful, just the result of a bad gamble. Had maryland gone for trump, and you were all “mea culpa” and all that, then that still wouldn’t be shameful, just a mistake in calculations. It is the people that are in the states where their votes mattered, who are still defending that they did the right thing by not voting for hillary, that I find quite annoying, though I do not know if I would go so far as to call shameful.
There is something to be said for voting for her anyway, to shore up the popular vote, for whatever that is worth, but, as it’s worth very little, there’s really not all that much to be said there.
First of all, that means you voted Libertarian which means you’re a special kind of stupid.
Second of all, why would a Libertarian want the federal government to give them money? Oh right, more of the inconsistency of Libertarianism. See the first thing I said.
Third of all, even if your vote doesn’t cost electoral votes, the more a candidate wins by, the more of a mandate that candidate will have. The more you win an election by, the more political capital you have. This is why Donald Trump is not content beating Hillary, he has to invent conspiracy theories about voter fraud because he got smoked by three million votes. Maybe if that was five million or even more, it’s more likely to instigate change. But because you’re a precious snowflake any discussions about reforming the Electoral College are less likely to happen.
Finally, when you had a chance to actually do something about a really terrible person who was demonstratively terrible on every level, you didn’t care enough to do everything you could to stop it. So go to hell.
Seems harsh, since I didn’t vote for the person because of his views or the views of the Libertarian Party.
I don’t care about the inconsistency of Libertarianism. See above.
I don’t agree with this, nor do I care.
He didn’t get the electoral votes from my state. Seems like enough for me to do. Plus, I don’t think he was demonstratively terrible on every level. I loved watching him on The Apprentice. Was pretty funny! Still funny, actually!
Oh, so you voted for a person in spite of his party and his views while helping an evil fascist get into the White House and dictate policy for the next 4-8 years.
And in a year where supposedly everyone hated the two main candidates, the Libertarians had access on every ballot and unprecedented media coverage thanks to more networks and a proliferation of social media, they didn’t even crack that magic 5% barrier. So your vote was wasted on yet another level. You must be so proud.
