Two Months is as much as you can expect to give even a blood relatve. Tell your husband to give the slug a 30 day notice. I can’t see how anyone would complain about 90 days of free romm and board. 30 days is enough for him to get some semblance of act together.
It makes sense to me. Defending your SO is a way of presenting a united front. You address the issues with your own family members because you do know them best, and presumably know how to keep the situation from escalating. And your SO knows that you have their back. The thing is, though, you have to do it, not “pick your battles.” One instance of a family member getting harsh or otherwise unpleasant is too many.
WHOA! Time out! Do you not see the HUGE flaw in this argument? If your husband wants to do the “heavy lifting” where his brother is concerned, why the blue bloody hell did he drag you into it by letting your BIL stay way past his expiration date?
Your husband involved you in this matter when he let Slug sleep under your roof, use your electricity, water, and food rent-free. I say you’ve earned the right to confront BIL. Of course, you and your husband do it together. But griping and complaining to your husband isn’t getting you anywhere. Tell hubby BIL has got to go, and you’ll be with him when he tell Slug to start packing his bags.
Otherwise, I go back to my earlier post…let your husband do the “heavy lifting” and you go live someplace else.
People have different tolerances for different things. There are things that drive me crazy that other people consider trivial and things that I don’t mind that make other people go ballistic. Starving But Strong is clearly very annoyed with this man at this point but not at “miserably unhappy, can’t live like this”. Just because someone else might have reached “miserably unhappy” before the two-month mark doesn’t mean she’s there yet and just being nice about it. Give her and her husband the benefit of the doubt and assume that he is taking her wishes and needs into account and that as she moves towards “this can’t stand”, he will take steps.
And I totally agree with the “each to his own family” setup. I’d be outraged if my husband started any sort of confrontation with my family. I’m the one that’s irrationally attached to them, I’ll be the one that decides what that irrational attachment is worth to me. He and I may talk about things and he may give all kinds of opinions, but my family, my call (and vice-versa. )
You aren’t helping your brother-in-law by allowing him to sponge off of you. If he’s acting like a 12 year old, then treat him like a 12 year old.
Would you allow your 12 year old son to sleep in as long as he wanted day after day?
Would you allow your 12 year old to skip school (work) and simply watch tv all day?
Would you allow your 12 year old son to make demands about what type of food he wanted you to buy?
Would you allow your 12 year old to accept all the benefits of living in your home without having any chores or responsibilities?
I hope not.
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Insist on him setting goals. He has to apply for x jobs per week. A job isn’t going to come and jump in his lap. If he hasn’t gotten a resume together, he must have one by the end of the week.
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Insist on him contributing to the household. He surpassed the “guest” designation and all its privileges after the first week. All members of the household, no matter how young or small, must contribute to the running of the household. He can certainly clean the house, fix things, shovel the walk, wash the cars, run errands.
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Make him start contributing financially. He is an adult. Adults pay rent. Adults pay for food. If he can’t find “regular” work then he can deliver pizzas at night. Whether he’s clinically depressed or simply depressed because of how his life has gone to the shitter, it’s important for him to get out of the house and start rebuilding his life.
Well, another update. We didn’t do the ‘plate snatched away’ yesterday, because he didn’t have anything to complain about. (Home cooked meal – pork chops, scalloped potatoes, broccoli – so no brands involved.)
OTOH, come dessert time, I told Slug how I had deliberately bought NONE of the brands he had written on my shopping list. This left him gaping a bit like a goldfish out of water. ::where’s the evil grin smiley?::
I immediately followed up by explaining why: that my husband and I had long ago sorted out who did which of the tasks involved in keeping our household running. Grocery shopping and most of the meal cooking my responsibilities, and thus I pretty much get to decide how I do them. I decide on the menus, though I usually soliciting suggestions for what people might like to have during the upcoming week, and then I shop for the ingredients based on what items might be on sale and what husband and I like.
His responsibility AS A GUEST was to be gracious. He could choose not to eat any of the food offered to him if he didn’t like it, but he DID NOT have any right to dictate what brands I bought and should keep ‘advice’ along that lines to himself unless I specifically ask for his opinion.
Whew! It was uncomfortable, and I think I startled husband, but he backed me up right away along the lines of ‘you do a great job, you’re a great cook, I’m sure Slug agrees with me’ etc. etc. Slug chimed in, too, and apologized. “just trying to help, in case you hadn’t tried X brand…” I said Thanks, but from now on, just let me do it my way. He agreed. We’ll see if he keeps to it.
On the wider front, I really can live with Slug being here another month, or two or three even, but it would help if I can see that the situation is improving.
I agree with several of the posters. it’s clear that Slug needs to be pushed more strongly into starting to get his life together. I will grab husband for a private talk later today, and see what he’s thinking. If he isn’t already thinking along those lines, I will bring up the idea of issuing an ultimatum with a time line. No, not ‘do it or get out’ – I don’t think either of us could accept forcing him out, at least not yet. OTOH, if we have to lock the televisions away in the garage…
I can live with that. (Yes it sounds juvenile: do your homework or no tv! But I really think TV is the main pleasure in his life right now, so it ought to be a good incentive.)
The timeline should be something like: by the end of this week he has to have made an appointment to get counselling. By the end of next week he also should also be out applying for at least a minimal job, part time maybe, just something to get him moving again. It can be busing tables at a restaurant for minimum wage, if that’s all he can handle right now. Grocery stocker at night. Burger flipper. Whatever. But he has to have something that forces him to get out into the real world and interacting with people.
We don’t want him to give us any money. We’ve talked in the past about that kind of thing, and we agree that you don’t charge family for room and board unless you actually NEED that money. Instead, I think we should insist he must set aside $X dollars or Y percent of his take home every week to build up a fund for the expenses of setting up his new living conditions.
I really think husband is on that page, or close to it anyway. Hope so. Keep your fingers crossed for me.
I like the term basking shark.
But seriously, good for you on the news you posted. I know it was very hard to do what you’ve done, and it’s a very good step.
I am going to be the voice of disension here and speak up for SBS. I don’t tell Mr. Jeeves how to deal with his deadbeat dad who’s rent we pay, or his deadbeat stepmom whose house we are doing minor remodeling for. Supposedly we will get the money back when she sells, but I am not counting on it. It is his family, and I support him in his decisions relating to his family.
I also understand the need to vent about it to a noninvolved party, since it is incredibly frustrating. So, if there is an accident, say substituting rat poison for his preffered brand of sugar, if you get a jury of Dopers, we will make sure you are aquitted.
Good luck getting rid of him! I hope you husband see’s that soon. Plus, its almost spring!
Instead of insisting he set aside $X (which he probably can’t or won’t do, since I seriously doubt he knows how to do a budget) I suggest you do charge him rent. Or tell him you’re charging him rent. Make it a minor amount, $100 or $150 a month.
Then, when he’s back on his feet, you can give him the money back in a lump sum as a deposit on an apartment. You’re forcing him to start taking responsibility for his finances and showing him what can happen if he saves instead of blowing it all on beer and lottery tickets.
I think your timeline is a good idea, as long as your husband is on board with it. Good luck.
Here’s an easy one–start waking Slug up when you get up, tell him the house is off limits during the day and he has to go hang out somewhere else until you get home from work to unlock the door. Make sure he doesn’t have a key. If he has to be “out in the cold” ten hours a day, maybe he’ll figure out that it’s warm inside office buildings where counselling, job interviews and placement assistance all occur.
Seriously, anyone who’s being that egregious a couch potato needs a swift kick in the taint…
The only problem with that is that unless he HAS to pay for rent, he doesn’t feel the crunch to get a job. It’s fine to give someone you love a safety net. You don’t want to give him a fluffy pillow and down comforter to boot.
I really believe that an able-bodied person should not permitted to just sit and watch tv all day. It’s not healthy for him mentally, emotionally, or physically. If you have cable or satellite, you probably have parental controls. Use them. If he can’t watch tv all day, he’ll be forced to do something more productive, preferably looking for a job, but even going for a walk would be better than sitting on his butt all day.
Good luck to you.
That’s good to hear, Starving. It’s entirely possible that Slug had no idea how unpleasant a guest he’s being, or that it’s time to move on with his life; hopefully you woke him up a little.
I wouldn’t care if I had just won the lottery and was sleeping on money. I would not pay anybody’s way in the world. It’s MY money sweetie.
Tell BIL the gravy train ride is over. He has one month to find some other place to live.
Since he’s in your house all day anyway, why doesn’t he vacuum, do dishes, sweep, and dust? And cook. And take the pets to the veterinarian, and touch up the paint, and fix the shelves.
Seriously, is he good for anything?
Be very, very careful: If he goes from a “houseguest” to a “tenant,” the legal situation changes. Depending on the laws of your state, it will probably be much, much harder to kick him out, should it come to that, if he’s legally considered a tenant. If you ask him to help pay his way, even informally, and he’s still in the house in three months, you may wind up needing to consult a lawyer if he objects to being thrown out. Personally, I would keep him as a houseguest only, for as long as your sanity holds out.
And what if he doesn’t meet any of your conditions? Are you really prepared to be some kind of warden, checking this box and that box on a list?
Give him a week. “We are telling you to be out of our house by next Friday.” And you must be prepared to make him go, which is the tough part, as I know. Because you’re nice people, you will give him a list of possible places to go.
We had to kick our son out of our house. We put up with even more than you have, and when I think back on it, I shake my head at our stupidity. A very long story, but the short version is, we finally did it and not once have I regretted it.
I do understand the “I’ll deal with my family, you deal with yours”, but you are overlooking one fact: you and your husband are YOUR family and your family ought to come first.
Besides, as so many people have pointed out, you are not doing him any favours.
When the time comes, here is a good way to get him out the door:
You and Hubby plan a vacation out of town, just for yourselves. Inform Slug that it’ll just be the two of you and you’re not comfortable with leaving him at home so he’ll need to find somewhere else to stay. You two get a nice vacation and no Slug when you get home.
We did this with our own Slug, who did have a job. He just didn’t feel like finding somewhere else to live until we gave him that ultimatum.
How can he not know? Fish and houseguests start to smell after three days.
Maybe so, but most people don’t mind the smell of their own stink. And there are people who are truly oblivious to how difficult they’re being until they’re confronted with specific evidence, including dates, times and 27 eight-by-ten color glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against them. And they still won’t get it. They assume that if you don’t say anything, you don’t have a problem with it.
A year ago December, Airman and I had a houseguest. He was a friend of Airman’s sister, and he was getting kicked out of college and needed a place to stay for a few days. Well, a few days turned into 10 days turned into three weeks. That’s not the primary problem. He had a job as a security guard at the local mall, which he got fired from, allegedly for drinking on the job. He’d bring his friends over, who were total strangers to us. He’d leave half-empty two-liter bottles of Coke sitting around, a few feet from the sink and the trash, and in places where they’d get kicked over very easily. He’d wait for one of us to get up from our computer so he could check his Myspace and Facebook and God-only-knows what else. We’d come back from the kitchen or the bathroom to find him looking at scantily-clad women, in front of our child. He’d ask to borrow our cars, and if we said no, he’d get passive-aggressive and whine that he had to walk three blocks to get his damn Coke. Oh, and he never even offered to reimburse us for anything he used, including our cars. I lost my patience with him when he snapped at my son. I understand that he worked nights, and we tried our best to accommodate that. But he never understood that Aaron lives here, and he didn’t.
The last straw came when he’d been there two-and-a-half weeks longer than he said he was going to be there. By this point, he had an excuse for everything from why he was fired from his job to why he was still on our sofa. AIUI, Airman basically told him that our couch wasn’t forever, and that he needed to find other arrangements ASAP. The guy ended up on his parents’ couch.
And the guy is no longer friends with Airman’s sister. She got tired of his mooching, too. And Chez Doors has a new policy of not allowing people to crash on our couch for more than a day or two. Namely, out of town visitors.
Robin