Pop quiz: H4E, assuming that I have a heart attack sitting at this computer (a possibly that becomes less likely with each passing day), given that I have not accepted Jesus Christ as my savior, am I going to hell?
If God would rather damn me rather than give me some sign that He exists, he’s either a) a bastard, or b) not there to save or damn me. Advocationg the presence of such a being is not hateful, IMHO. Just a opening for cognative dissonance a mile wide.
Liar.
Get thee behind me, His4Ever.
His4Ever-I lurk a lot more then I post and I 've read quite a bit from you. The reason I, at least, think that you’re a self-righteous, holier then thou, intolerant jerk is because THAT’S HOW YOU COME ACROSS IN YOUR POSTS!! I know nothing about you except from your posts and from them you come across as all of the above. It’s not just what you say, it’s how you say it. The bible might be god’s word, but I have yet to see a copy with footnotes explaining the meaning of his words, so your interpertation is just as much guess work as mine is. The difference being that I, and most christians I know, are willing to admit that we’re just making our best guess and hoping we’re right.
Oh, your apology came across as sincere as a polititions handshake, IMHO.
But that would require H4E to entertain a hypothetical situation…might as well ask sheep to fly.
That’s why I like Catholicism-no Sola Scripture!!
Guin,
The fight against ignorance is won one Doper at a time. Thanks!
Amazing. I didn’t know a word, I pulled up google, I copy and pasted the word, and stuff comes out! Eureka!!;)
This is from the article:
Bingo.
H4e:
Just in case you missed it the first eighteen thousand times:
If you are failing in your mission to come across as X to a group of people, and they all see you as being Y, then you need to at least consider changing what you’re doing.
IOW (in other words): you come off to a goodly number on this board as being holier-than-thou and of the opinion that yours is the only valid set of religious beliefs (and if you really need a cite for that, go through your old posts). Furthermore you are almost wholly unable to defend them. As has been pointed out by folks of many religious faiths and backgrounds, yer not doin’ the job He sent you to do.
And as for this … “I found the things they were saying very disturbing and so I commented on them.” Way to understate things. People were joking, some posted serious answers to the joking stuff, and then you come along with that “warped by the evil one” bullshit.
Get. a. grip.
Umph. His4Ever, from your posts, you kind of remind me of the posters at another board I used to frequent, which was very Protestant, and rather anti-Catholic. Some of the members also seemed to be anti-education, as well.
There ended up being vicious internal flame wars there, on the basis of hot-temperedness and ignorance. Very few posters seemed to recognise the useful (and to my mind, very Christian) Principle of Charity in debate, which is assuming that your debating partner means the best thing they could have meant, given their words.
Neither did most of them use any of the general rules for arguing, such as "don’t say, ‘you never…’, or toss insults, or shout so loudly that one is unable to here the other person’s point.
This board is not tacitly Christian, it is a gathering place for people of all sorts of different views. It is very wise to learn to phrase your beliefs in such a way as to not come off unloving, and judgemental. My personal favorite route for evangelism is based on Paul’s in Athens. Start from where the other people are, and argue (or discuss) from their preconceptions, not your own.
There are lots of amazing Christians here- and lots of absolutely amazing people of all other persuasions, as well. I suggest you do a bunch of lurking, and observe the way they all interact.
Also, I suggest you read some of the Christian classics, in order to educate yourself about the history of the faith. It is dangerous, sinful, and unBiblical to hate one’s brothers and sisters in the faith- and very bad to be ignorant concerning one’s sprirtual mothers and fathers, as well. Because I’m monomanical, I suggest Orthodoxy, by G.K. Chesterton, The Rule Of St. Benedict, and The Imitation of Christ by Thomas a Kempis*. I also ask you to consider why God let an institution which many anti-Catholics claim is the Antichrist carry Christianity for 1400 years.
May God bless you, and I apologise to anyone I might have inadvertantly offended.
H4e, people might insult Jesus, in your opinion. That will happen. If you find it insulting, don’t read it. People are just expressing their own opinions. Personally, I wonder about Jesus’ adolescence myself.
Oh dear, can her mind be straightened out again?
To His4ever. You quoted a scripture that is very dear to me. reminds me of the much older scripture
If everyone will bow their knee, and swear allegiance at the name of Jesus does that not fufill the promise of John 3:16 for each and every person?
His4Ever, you said the mind of a very dear friend of mine of “seems to have been warped by the evil one,” and that the conversation which resulted from a thread she started is “disgusting and pretty close to blasphemy.” As someone who has dedicated herself and her life to Christ, those are fighting words. That is what I’m objecting to. I told you how your attitude comes across, and others have backed me up on that, but you don’t seem to understand it. If you’ve been called hateful and unloving, it’s because that *is[/is] the way you seem. If you don’t like it, you have been given the ability to change it. For openers, go into MPSIMS and, when you see someone posting about hard times, say something nice without citing scripture.
I spend a lot of my time hanging out with Wiccans, Pagans, and other non-Christians. I am genuinely sorry to tell you this, but one reason some of these people have turned away from Christianity is because they have met people who come across the same way you do. These are people who keep telling them how wrong they are to question, to think, to wonder, or to be different. As a result, they turn away because there is no place for them. Some us can no more help questioning things than others of us can help having blue eyes. To be told that asking what to me is a perfectly natural question is “close to blasphemy” drives us away from the very salvation you tell us we must have.
I prayed for both of us after I posted last night, long and hard. I prayed to a Christ who became fully human so that he could know the limitations of the human body and of human will. I also re-read John 3:16, but I then carried on to John 3:17, “It was not to judge the world that God sent his Son into the world, but that through Him the world might be saved.” Please think about that next time you’re calling someone blasphemous, an abomination or warped by the evil one. Part of my prayer, by the way, was that I might come to better understand you.
I can see a bit of where you’re coming from, but you came across as trying to hurt my friends. I’ve been standing up for my friends since kindergarten, and changing that habit will be difficult, assuming I ever have the desire to change it. I especially don’t like to see them hurt for something I’ve encouraged. If you truly believe my mind has been warped by the evil one, tell me, and I’ll agree we appear to be on opposite sides. You can do so by e-mail, if you like. If not, then please, think of your words, think of your attitudes before you post, think of the way you present the God we both serve.
Respectfully,
CJ
“A tree is known by its fruit.” — Jesus
I don’t agree with what His4Ever has been saying, as you can see in the thread in the link in the OP. However, in her defense, she was just stating an opinion. What I would like to point out is that in that thread, His4Ever was saying that our opinions were bad and that we are bad people. In this thread, we are saying that HER opinions are bad and that SHE is a bad person. Isn’t that sinking down to her level?
Ah, so true, so true. I wish many evangelicals would realize how many people they drive away with their narrow and harsh interpretations of God.
Not that I’m Christian, just that if they realized it, they might tone down the noise a little bit and replace it with a more pleasant sound.
“You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.” — Jesus
I think what Christians like His4ever object to is people having FUN - if you’re having a laugh, sin must be involved somewhere!!!
As a Buddhist - She’d probably say I was damned anyway - just as well I don’t believe in hell;) ::smack:
“And they’ll know we are Christians by our love.”
His4Ever-we don’t see this of you.
That’s what keeps me coming back to it-not the Bible, or the catechism, but seeing people I believe in, people I adore and admire, who are Christians. I say, I want to be like that.
That’s how it works.
His4Ever, when I first came to this board, the reaction was, “Jeez, not another one of them Christians come to preach at us!” Some thought it, some overtly posted it. The guy who said in essence what I just quoted (albeit with better English than I did) became one of my closest friends, both here and IRL. (I won’t say who for two reasons: He’s no longer a member of this board nor a resident of this city; and his screen name would lead you to erroneous conclusions about his spiritual life. But longtime members will know just whom I’m speaking about.)
By doing my best to show Christ, or at least Christlike motives, in not only what I said but in **how[/]b I said it and in expressing serious concern for people and their problems, I moved from “not another one of those Christian idiots” on a strongly anti-Christian board to a person who is fairly well liked on a board that understands what Christian teaching is, even if many choose not to follow it.
I don’t want to seem prideful about this, but it’s the job we were given. Not overt quoting of Scripture, except when that’s the appropriate answer to the situation before you, not judging of who is and is not among the elect (as if either of us know!). But being a person who brings Christ to them. “By this shall all men know that you are My disciples – that you love one another.”
Which of your posts has expressly shown love and compassion towards the people here? Were you showing Christ’s love to agentfroot and the people having fun with the idea of Jesus as a teenager?* Were you showing Christ’s love to gobear and Esprix and the rest of the gay people when you said that God thinks they’re abominations? How about the sincere LDS members here who may have a bizarre theology but have taken Jesus as their Lord same as you and me, whose beliefs you insulted on the basis of Granny Somebody’s “expose of the Mormon cult”? How about the sincere Catholics here, about whose beliefs you lied and when shown the evidence that your statements were lies (presumably out of ignorance) you failed to apologize but maintained that you were “witnessing to the Truth”? Stating the truth about what you believe and why is one thing; insulting people in the name of God is quite another, and something He never commanded – in fact, He tells us to do precisely the opposite, even if attacked and insulted by others.
Dear, nobody hates you, there’s no clique out to get you, but what we all dearly wish, Christian and non-Christian alike, is that you’d act like your Lord commanded.
It can’t be that hard to understand.
Disclaimer:
I am an unbeliever.
The following comments are to be understood as my response to this situation (the original thread, and the resultant pit thread here).
I am not defending my own religious views.
I do not share the views of His4Ever, particularly with regard to the comments she made regarding diabolical influence on the minds of other posters.
cjhoworth
I think you were wrong to start this thread.
As almost everyone on the boards knows, His4Ever believes in Christianity, and takes the bible literally. She is not alone. A lot of people in this world share her religious views.
A thread is blasphemous when it contains such chestnuts as these:
1)-“My Father wants to know how those breasts of yours are developing. He says I’m supposed to check them myself.”
“Blessed So-and-So! My Father has chosen YOU to be the one to take my Virginity!”
“You don’t have to cover up when I come into the baths. I’m the Son of God. I’ve seen it all before.”
2)- You have truly divine breasts - allow me to lay my hands on them and bless them"
“Would you like me to bless anything else - I don’t mind doing your whole body!!!”
3)-Come to Jesus, Baby!
Hey baby, it’s a sacrament!
Oh my Lord, here I come!
If you do IT with Jesus, IT ain’t no sin.
4)-It is just WHOLLY HOLY, Praise the lord and await his SECOND Coming!!!
Comments of that type, and many others contained in the thread, are grossly offensive to people who share His4Ever’s world view. For His4Ever, and many other Christians in the world, the person of Christ is sacrosanct.
Since you are fond of using metaphors, e.g. “baseball bats”; you should contemplate the metaphor of waving a red flag in front of a bull. The offensive material posted on that thread constitutes the red flag IMO.
FWIW, His4Ever did say:
" Your minds seem to have been warped by the evil one. "
I think she was referring to the offensive remarks, and not the OP, (note the use of the plural, minds) but I could be wrong.
In my opinion she does not owe you, or anyone else an apology.
I also feel that the “baseball bat” comment was unwarranted.
gobear
His4Ever did indicate her opinions were her own, and not empirical fact. She used the expression, “as far as I’m concerned”.
You seem unconcerned when offensive comments are made regarding the person of Christ, but ask yourself how you would react to the (oft quoted) “gays are gonna have sex with children”, remark or any other idiotic stereotype concerning homosexuality.
I feel sure that you would be (justifiably) offended. I think you ought to extend a little more courtesy toward His4Ever, and at least sympathize with why she might be offended by such comments.
I think you’re a good addition to the boards, and I enjoy reading your posts. I don’t always agree with you, but, hey, that’s life. When I see the relationship that exists between you and posters like his4Ever, I’m reminded of the Indian Wars.
“no prisoners are taken”.
In such wars all are savages, none are civilized.
His4Ever
You’ve gotten a pretty rough treatment on the boards. You have my sympathies. The question of Christ’s adolescence is thought provoking, and good material for religious contemplation. I suggest reading Kazantzokos’ book, “The Last Temptation of Christ” for some insight on that topic. Although it doesn’t specifically deal with adolescence per se, it is nevertheless a book about the humanity of Christ, and conflicting feelings he might have experienced. Unlike what you may have heard, the book is not irreligious. In fact it affirms the holiness of Christ (at least for me).
Warning: it’s dreadfully boring.
The continual negative comments directed toward His4Ever are getting tiresome to me. I think many of the people making them are capable of so much more. On the other hand, many are not.
Which is the greater shame, those bereft souls with shit for brains, or otherwise smart people who cannot resist the temptation to pick on an SDMB pariah.
Forbin, surely you can see that H4E has gotten no more grief than she has dished out- far less, really.
I find it ironoc that someone who admitted that she would discriminate against homosexuals in housing has come to a private messageboard, attacked the participants, then claimed that she is a victim. I find it absolutely fucking disgusting that there are morons like you who buy into her lie that she is a victim.
She started this shit, she has lied about people. When her lies have been pointed out she cries that she’s being attacked.