Maddie Hayes in Moonlighting was an atheist, but they never let her actually say it. In one episode she said, “I just don’t believe in—” and David Addison put his hand over her mouth and said, “Don’t say it! You might piss The Big Guy off,” or words to that effect.
Ugh, no. I’m not ashamed of my (lack of) beliefs. I don’t pass.
I sit quietly when grace is said, but I don’t bow.
–Cliffy
The Big Guy being the network censor, I suppose.
That’s exactly what I was going to say.
The Wicker Man has, I think, a strongly agnostic/atheist subtext running through it, as the plot pits the convictions and rituals of a pagan community against those of an interloper Christian, but in a way that suggests that both sides are, in various ways, totally nuts. All of the characters, with the likely exception of the village lord, are devout practitioners of their faith and utterly sincere in their professed religious convictions. Subversively, the film draws attention to the similarities (as well as some sensational differences) between the two belief systems. The villagers’ cruelty and the unresolved, though likely futile, ultimate outcome of the concluding ritual (will the harvest succeed or fail?) suggest that the filmmakers intended to communicate a dismissive “pox on both your houses”-type of condemnation of all organized religions – or at least those based upon the sanctity of animal and human sacrifice – even though many of the film’s viewers see it rather as villifying one side or the other.
Significantly, though, The Wicker Man was an indie British production.
Whoa, there are positive examples of atheists in films, even if only indie films? WHoa.
You know , that reminds me of an over analyst of Toy Story, that seemed less over analyzed then most. It made the case that it was actually an analogy of some becoming an atheist, but not in the usual Hollywood sense. Since it is from usenet, and not some website, I think I will cut & past the whole thing.
Wait, never mind. Here it is.Oh, and as for Toy Story 2, I just take it literally. Perhaps a even a bit too literally.
Plus the Vorta and Jem’Hadar.
Wow. I saw that flick when I was a 19-year-old undergrad. I can’t remember if I was inebriated or not while watching (odds are even either way), but while I had a sense that perhaps something deep was going on, my brain mostly registered “BOOBIES!”, and little more than the film’s, er, artistic values, plus the rather sorry fate of the protagonist, made a deep or lasting impression.
Kudos!
What are you basing that on? If it’s the comment she made to her colleague that she wasn’t religious - well, since when did being “not religious” imply “atheist”? Lots of people aren’t religious, but aren’t atheists. I’ve seen every episode of Trial by Jury and that’s the only thing I can imagine you’re surmising that from. Kibre may be an atheist, or she may be an agnostic, or she just may be completely apathetic towards theology. Any one of those things can make for an answer of “no” when someone asks you if you’re religious.
…on a more assertive note, I’m pretty sure Michael (Meathead) on All in the Family was an atheist. Ditto for Becker (which someone else already mentioned).
Michael definitely was. I remember conversations around it, and in one episode Archie baptized Michael and Gloria’s son against his wishes.
“I’m not religious” is a pretty standard way of an atheist deflecting questions when you don’t want to get into a fight about it. I’ve used it myself. It’s not proof, but it is strong evidence.
Marley23 writes:
> That’s why it’s “going through the motions.”
But why does she still go to church even though she doesn’t go with someone to please then, nor does she go to meet people to socialize with them? I could understand someone who still believes but is angry at God who then quits going to church because it hurts too much to go. Why though with no one to impress nor to socialize with would she continue to go even though she’s angry at God? I think she feels some need to go despite the lack of connection with the people there and despite her anger at God. For me that’s not going through the motions. I think I have a different definition of “going through the motions” than you do.
I see your point, and it’s a good one. Though it may be an issue of semantics, actually, she wasn’t asked that exact question - her colleague asked her if she was religious, and she said “no”, then asked her if she was. As I said earlier, that suggests she might be an atheist, but I think it’s equally likely she’s just an agnostic or apathetic. I know people who are not atheists who answer “no” to that question.
Then again, the series is only about six episodes old. Surely there is much more character development to be seen. On the other hand, there’s a lot I don’t know about many of the other characters on the other L&O series - in fact, right offhand, the only one I can think of that I know the theological position of is Detective Stabler of the SVU squad, who’s Catholic (the episode was about allegations of abuse by clergy). I can’t recall any of the other characters ever professing their theological stances, or political stances, or whatever.
That kinda makes me curious - after all, I haven’t seen nearly all of them. Has anyone else heard something about the characters in the Law & Order universe?
Jack McCoy is a lapsed Catholic.
I’m pretty sure it was a dream. And there are relatively few Klingons in DS9. But in TNG, we got some insight into their religious beliefs (something TOS had completely ignored). From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingons#Klingon_religion:
In one TNG episode, Whorf made a pilgrimage to a Klingon religious retreat, and while he was praying, Kahless (the messianic first Emperor) actually appeared! I won’t tell you more because I don’t know how to do a spoiler box.
We see a little of Ferengi religion—apparently, it involves bidding/bribing your soul’s way to it’s destination after your death. (I can’t remember if it’s heaven or reincarnation, though I do remember that it was implied that there was a “bad place” you could go to.)
Humans have made, maybe once or twice, Biblical references. Thats it. And about in the same tone as someone might quote Shakespeare or Cicero.
And…we had threads on Openly Atheist Characters on TV and Atheist Cinema, awhile back. If that’s any help. (Prob’ly shouldn’t post anything new to the latter, considering it’s five years old.)
Remember the 1966 (I think) movie Fantastic Voyage? A crew of scientists, along with their cool-looking submarine, are shrunk down to microscopic size and injected into the bloodstream of an injured man in order to remove an otherwise unreachable blood clot in his brain. Anyway, because it’s a Cold War story, it turns out one of the crew is a traitor and saboteur. Even though it’s almost a 40-year-old movie, I’ll use a spoiler box:
[spoiler]Well, it’s one of these guys: 1) the team leader, an allegedly brilliant doctor who keeps blathering about God’s miraculous handiwork; 2) the completely rational atheist scientist.
Can you guess which one? As a hint, the atheist is played by Donald Pleasence. If I’d been writing it, he would have been the hero.[/spoiler]
As for Signs, I have a more generous interpretation than some, because I didn’t see any definitive canonical statement about the existence or nonexistence of the divine in the movie. More of a character study; as stated in a key scene, what some people see as coincidences, others will see as affirmations of faith. In Mel Gibson’s position, I would have seen the events at the end of the movie as a series of lucky coincidences, and remained an atheist. Gibson’s character let himself believe again because faith was part of his nature.
True, but then again, it could just mean someone believes in spirtual things more then dogma.
I believe in God, Jesus, etc, but If you asked me, I’d say I wasn’t religous and I personally think organized religion is one of those things that happens when faith is turned into an institution and gets ****ed up, like every human institution.
I also believe there’s a special place reserved in hell for people who use faith/religion for their own selfish ends(granted, that covers a lot of ground).
So I’m not religious, but far from an athiest.
:smack: I answered this twice already.
Our definitions are pretty close, as evidenced by the fact that you asked me the above question (again) and then gave something close to the answer I would have given. To me, it’s going through the motions because she doesn’t expect to get an answer or help for her problems. If you asked her why she was going, she probably wouldn’t be able to say.
There’s always The Contender. It’s about Joan Allen, nominated to replace a deceased vice-president of President Jeff Bridges. It’s mostly about her fighting off (or in essence, not fighting off) a sex scandal, but she is a Liberal Atheist Wet Dream in so many respects. As a liberal atheist myself, I burst out laughing at her scene of Senate confirmation testimony where some Senator asks her about her religious beliefs and she answers something about “I don’t believe fairy tales.” Yeah. Right. Like a lead balloon.
In the movie “Compulsion”, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052700/
(a fictionalized telling of the Leopold and Loeb ‘crime of the century’) Orson Welles plays the defending attorney Jonathan Wilk. His atheistic stance is undeniably stated (by others) but Wells does not comment about it. A definite positive portrayal of an atheist without the “angry at God” angle attached.
Since this movie was made in 1959 they probably “chickened out” on the 100% atheistic Orson Welles’ character when he tells the boys at the end of the story “Maybe some day you will think, maybe it was the hand of God that dropped those eyeglasses”. (The eyeglasses being a vital clue in solving the crime.)