Holy Crap! Just finished watching AOTC. Dont open if you havent seen yet..SPOILERS

Hmmm, kinda like Princess Leia falling for Han Solo, eh? :smiley:

C’mon, the romance part is that Amidala sees through his whiny-ness and arrogance and thinks she sees some good in him. Although, I agree that after he admitted killing all those Tuscan Raiders I would have been creeped out, too. Other than that, I was fine with the romance part, I thought it fit well inside the story–besides we KNOW they get together, whether they are smooth about it or not doesn’t matter that much, does it? I thought the lines he said about sand were cute and endearing—seriously!!!

Sam Jackson, being the Bad muthafucka that he is, asked Lucas for a purple one so that in the big battle scenes, you would know who was kicking all that ass.
The Yoda scene will be the one that everyone talks about 20 years from now.

We know they get together—But that doesn’t excuse the filmmakers from making the movie well. Bottom line, I thought Natalie Portman was the shining point of this movie, and the stature she brought to Amidala made me cringe when she fell for Anakin. For me, it just didn’t compute. I assumed Anakin would be charming and strong–think about someone as powerful as Darth Vader, but not yet on the Dark Side. I expect more out of Amidala. She’s the class of the movie, but she goes for the whining kid who kills women and children? Issues for me.

I thought Natalie Portman SUCKED. She spoke every line in a monotone with a deadpan face. She only showed one flash of emotion when she told someone to hurry. Also, the scene where she picked herself up out of the sand was terrible–she looked like she’d never run before in her life. However, she was a badass during the battle so that was cool.

I thought they did a good job of just showing flashes of Anakin’s dark side–his angry, evil stare from under his eyebrows reminded me of Jack Nicholson in The Shining when he’s totally gone over the edge.

The love story was just plain painful. That dreadful scene in the meadow looked like The Sound of Music or a Ricola commercial.

Samuel L. Jackson and Yoda rocked.

Just got back… very mixed feelings… loved the end. Loved yoda, loved the fett boys. But was actually bored by parts of it. I have to see it again to see if it was just my super-huge expectations beign let down. (I’m one of the few, the not-so-proud, the phantom menace lovers, so I was pretty psyched for this one.)

But anyhoo just to clear up a few misconceptions:

Jango says on Kamino he was hired by a guy named tyranus to be the … er…clonie(?). At the end Palpy/Sidious calls dooku Tyranus. So Dooku arranged the whole thing, apparently on Palpy’s orders. He hired Jango, hired the Kaminoan’s to clone him, AND stirred up the seperatist movement and had them build the droid army. Ingenious really. Same MO Sidious had from TPM. Make yourself an enemy you can control, forcing your allies to put you in a position of power, defeat the enemy easily, and reap the glory.

And this was a part I thought was really cool, but aparantly some people missed: the clone Jango requested for himself is BOBA. Not Capt. Typho, who was IMHO a completely wasted character. If they couldn’t get Hugh Quarshie to reprise Capt. Panaka, they should’ve just dropped him. He didn’t really do anything anyway.

Anakin starts out with a blue lightsaber. It breaks in the droid factory. He gets the green one when the Jedi brigade throws it to him. At the time, I’m sure he wasn’t being picky about the color. He probably gets another blue one by epIII. At the rate he seems to go through them though, it kinda makes it seem less “heirloom” like in ep4. “This is your father light-saber… or at least one of them he didn’t break.”

At one point it was theorized that blue meant jedi knight and green meant jedi master. But it was never confirmed, and purple… well, all betas are off.

Unanswered questions:

OK, I can believe the droids get their memory wiped, and I can believe Obiwan keeps the secret, and I can even believe that Vader refuses to acknowledge them because they are a reminder of his good side. But Uncle owen obviously knows 3po pretty well. But he doesn’t seem to at all in ep4. Yes, 3po is shinier then, but he introduces himself by name. You’d think owen would remember the name of a droid he lived with for several years.

technology regressed in most ways between the prequels and the OT… at least stylistically (compare the shiny naboo fighters to X-wings). So why does anakin’s prothetic hand look like crap compared to luke’s?

Why is no one (especially yoda) concerned that someone altered the Jedis’ database?

If the whole senate cheers when Jarjar makes his proposal, why didn’t one of them already do it? Why did Palpatine have to trick Jarjar into it if enough of the senate was for it that it passed. (apparently, we never see a vote, it’s just kinda happens).

Amidala is someone who likes to repair things that are wrong with society. She falls for Anakin but also believes she can be the good influence he knows he needs to fix his flaws.

But it’s a kiddie flick, the romance is at a fairytale level (like Snow White falling for Prince Charming just because he turned up one day and is the only non-dwarf who doesn’t want her dead).

As for:

The guy at the start is Captain Typho, who is Captain Panaka’s nephew (from the first film). The guy who played Panaka was African/American, but the guy who played Typho is Samoan (Pacific Islander).

Whereas the Fetts are played by Maori. Also a Pacific Island race, but still distinctively different, if you know what to look for.

In other words, there’s nothing to be read into it, Captain Typho is not anything to do with cloning.

WEEEE-HA! What a ride! As usual, the very astute Doper community has made great observations, to which I can add little except hearty agreement.

But what the hell, here’s my little bit.

The audience response was great out here in Charlottesville, VA, too. People laughing and cheering, especially at Yoda’s big fight scene. I was actually more taken with the fight between Anakin and Dooku, after all, you can make a CGI character do anythng. (On another note, what is up with that name anyway? Why does Lucas DO that? Create a really good character and then saddle him with a name like Dooku? Why not just call him Dorkface?)

I was also quite pleased to see Jimmy Smits in there. He really added a nice sense of weight to the scenes he was in.

Another thing I enjoyed was the time the movie gave to developing the story. Very Satisfying.

My vote for Annoying Shit: Recycled Lines. Cut that out! You don’t have to say “I have bad feeling about this” in every goddamn movie. And taking the scene where Vader reveals to Luke that he is is his father and rehashing it between Dookalook and Obi Wan was just silly.

Finally, I thought that light sabres were being given their proper due. In the earlier films, they were great but somehow strangely ineffectual. In this film, I really got the sense that those bad boys are sharp. When Anakin cut those two Tusken Raiders down, they just dropped, and when Ducksoup took Anakin’s arm, that was one nasty blow.

Yes, yes, but in that one quick shot of the adult clones eating or whatever, they sure looked like Amidala’s head guard to me. I don’t think it means anything, but I wouldn;t be surprised if it becomes one of those little missed details that somehow becomes a deliberate thing Lucas explains in a few years.

I have now seen it twice…the ending is fun, but the first half does kind of drag. Especially the Padme/Anakin scenes which often made me cringe. I enjoyed the labryinthe plot/investigations though, more on that in a second.

I definately think that Palpatine will win over Anakin with his whole “Strike down Dooku/Tyrannus and take his place by my side” routine. He has obviously been subtly guiding Anakin since he began training to be a jedi (and inflating his ego and arrogance). Dooku/Tyrannus also seems to be playing both sides as well and not just with the republic/seperatists. I think his appeal to Obi-Wan was on par with Vader’s appeal to Luke at the end of Empire. Join me and take the master sith lord down! These sith seem to only want more power, even at the cost of their closest allies!
While I enjoyed the ending (it was visually stunning), I wish we could have had some of the gaping plot holes filled in. As much as I loved the complexity of the Palpatine/Dooku shenanigans, what the hell are the jedi doing?

Oh, we have someone impersonating a dead jedi creating a clone army and erasing our archives? Who was it? Who cares, lets just use the very convenient clone army to save our butts. Note how Yoda goes to Kimino to find out about the clone army, and returns in the nick of time to save our heroes in distress, but ignores the whole issue of who set up the army and ignores the fact that there is just suddenly this army that is there and that will be used “for emergency powers?” Not to mention the disturbing fact that they were bred to be docile and obdient and follow orders.

Our force powers are waning and a sith lord may be in the senate, but we can’t find him, so let’s just keep training new jedi and ignore the danger? Oh, all the new padawan/jedi are becoming arrogant and delusional in their abililties? Who cares, give them assignments by themselves anyway.

Jedi are not supposed to form attachments, but lets just assign our most hotheaded padawan to protect a woman he is head over heels for? Yes, I know Palpatine set that up, but the jedi didn’t override it and assign someone else? Someone less volatile and more experienced? Yoda senses something when Palpatine orders Obi-Wan and Anakin to guard Padme (notice his stare/glare at Palpatine) yet does nothing?

The jedi ignore EVERY SINGLE WARNING SIGNAL. Even if Palpatine can hide himself, how can they just sit there and let all this happen? Yoda is like a broken record in this one, “Well the dark side clouds everything, so lets just sit and meditate.” Gah! I enoyed this movie alot, but at times it was like a bad b movie in reverse, where the heroes do EVERYTHING wrong and the bad guys do EVERYTHING right. Frustrating, as we know the jedi aren’t that stupid. All of the heroic victories are planned by Palpatine in advance. Now that I think about it, perhaps even the assination plot wasn’t so much a bone to the trade federation (who have just as much reason to be pissed at Sidious as Amidala) but a way for Palpatine to “let” the jedi find the clones so they could have an army to save themselves…

Now I suppose there could be an explanation for all this in the third episode, but I find it hard to take the jedi seriously if this is the best they can do in a time of crisis, i.e. be pulled like puppets to their own destruction. Maybe the dark side is more powerful after all, hmmm…

What i don’t understand is why Dooku, and later Vader, would go along with the whole “lets turn this new young kick ass jedi to the dark side” plan. I mean, they have to know that Sidius isn’t thinking about retirement and wants a replacement for himself right? “sure boss, lets turn him to the dark side so you can get rid of my old/crippled ass and you can have a brand new apprentice” Doesn’t sound like good career planning by those two…

Favorite line in the whole movie–

Obi Wan: Anakin, someday you’ll be the death of me.

Har Har Har.

I see thetruth.com had a word in here. (Want some Death Sticks? I don’t need any Death Sticks…You don’t need any Death Sticks…I need to go home and rethink my life…I need to go home and rethink my life!)

The Uncle Owen-C3P0 link is indeed a largish plot hole. Curious indeed. In other news, it was interesting to see that they found an actor and actress who looked exactly like the Episode IV Owen and Beru.

Is the ability to shoot lighting bolts out of the hands strictly a dark side thing? It seems like you get a lot of advantages with the dark side that you don’t really get with the light side, especially in battle (where it seems to count). I mean Dooku held off Yoda – maybe Yoda was pulling his punches? You get to mess with peoples’ minds more, you get the lightning bolts, you get to cloud the mind of light side Jedis, you get what seems like a bigger boost in light saber and throwing shit action. Anything that the light siders get? The ability to meditate? Zen-like tranquility?

Did anybody manage to pick out the cameos by N’Sync?

All the real points have been addressed, so all I’ve got is a couple little observations.

First, did anyone notice that every time they cut to another planet, they used a wipe. Diagonal wipes, sideways wipes, top to bottom wipes, bottom to top wipes, circle wipes, and at least one clockwise wipe. All that was missing was the star wipe. It really threw me when there was a wipe between two scenes one Tattoine.

Lucas seems to have given up on the whole midichlorian angle.

Did we really need the plans of the Death Star being shown more clearly. We all recognized it when it was in the background, it wasn’t really necessary for Dooku to display it again more clearly for us five seconds later. Sometimes Lucas has all the subtlety of a sledgehammer in the forehead (think of the scene in TPM which exists solely to mention R2-D2’s name).

Speaking of R2, how the hell is he always there. He can’t even walk down stairs, yet he can just show up wherever he’s needed.

I need my own clone army. That has now become my goal in life.

Owen and Beru meet R2 and 3PO in this movie but don’t recognize them in ANH?

Surely they could have afforded to build some sets, rather than have every damn little thing be CG. Hell, I think the piece of fruit that Anakin and Amidala share wasn’t even real. There’s no reason that couldn’t easily be done with, you know, a prop.

They are not in the movie. They were visiting on set one day, they wanted to be in it, they didn’t get the opportunity at the right time, they aren’t there.

And if they were there, then they’re background Jedi.

Just saw AOTC. My observations:

I used to count myself among the elite Star Wars geeks; I spent way too much money buying and devouring every piece of Star Wars literature published for a period of 5 years, I have four copies of the original trilogy (taped off HBO, original VHS release, Re-mastered, and Special Edition – Lucas you greedy, little scoundrel), and I used to have a Darth Vader photomosaic poster framed over my bed. TPM, ended all that for me. After watching that long, boring, poorly written, poorly cast, pathetic excuse for a Star Wars film I ended my love affair with SW. I saw AOTC not as a Star Wars fan but as a movie fan. So to say the least I had extremely lowered expectations, and I was most definitely surprised.

The action and the visuals are unquestionably phenomenal, simply topnotch movie going experiences. They are so good in fact that even if they had replaced the boring meetings and love scenes in between the action with infomercials for spray-on-hair it would still be a movie worth watching. The Genosis battle was an undisguised “Gladiator” meets “Star Wars,” but man, what a combo! The acting and the dialogue as you no doubt have heard many times before leaves something to be desired, but surprisingly I thought the story was rather good. My biggest beef in movies is predictability and much to my amazement AOTC has more than its fair share of twists and turns, and is genuinely thrilling at points. However as good as the action and the story may be there is no point in this movie where I felt anything like when Luke and Vader meet each other in battle for the first time in ESB, there was no sense of emotional attachment to the characters in AOTC for me. That could just be my SW baggage talking though. In the end, I put this film in fourth place overall behind Jedi, then ANH, with Empire in first place and TPM noticeably absent from the ranking.

As for the actors:

Ewan Mcgregor- Like everyone else I agree, his was the standout performance. He obviously did his homework because he nailed Obi Wan. I have nothing bad to say about this actor (alright one bad thing to say, Moulin Rouge), I’ve watched his every move since Trainspotting.

Natalie Portman- I’m baffled; beautiful, multilingual, Harvard educated young woman… can’t act her way out of a wet paper bag? She was more robotic than Threepio.

Hayden Christenson- Not bad, a little over done at points, but anything is better than Portman’s colorless recitation of Lucas’ already weak dialogue.

The Tusken Raider scene was a let down though, he looks at his mom, he is sad and angry, he walks out of the tent and then decapitates two or three Tuskens and then… screen wipe. It was all too brief for what could have been a very pivotal scene. I was expecting much more, maybe even something like this: His mother speaks her last words and slumps into his arms, he whispers her name even though he knows she is dead, the camera pans up and we see Skywalker’s eyes filled with sorrow as he places his mother gently on the ground. His expression moves from grief to anger. (Alright, that part was in the movie, but keep reading). Exterior; the Tuskens are stirring as the twin suns of Tantooine rise; suddenly a tortured scream blasts from the tent in the center of camp startling all the raiders who warily approach the source of the disturbance with their weapons raised. They form a circle around the tent and slowly move in when a green streak abruptly shreds the tent and a blurred figure flies at the Raiders with a pained howling. Anakin dives headlong, twists mid air and with one clean sweep of his saber, halves three raiders, and then throws his saber end over end to take out a fourth as he rolls to a landing. Then, aided by the force he pulls the remaining raiders fleeing the massacre back to him and flings them around like rag dolls, brutally smashing them into each other and the ground. The camera pans up ever so slowly, until all we can see is Skywalker’s face wet with tears, his face is deep in concentration as he murders the nomads, at first his eyes look the same as before, deep sorrow mixed with bloodthirsty rage, but gradually his eyes widen and we see the faintest hint of enjoyment as he realizes he is wielding power like he has never before - he is the most powerful Jedi. Something has changed in his young man. Something has awakened in him. Screen wipe. I’m not Lucas, but that’s the way I would have done it.

Sam Jackson- He ruled, it was to be expected.

Jar Jar- True he wasn’t in the film much, but I would have lost him altogether. My young cousins love him though, so I know Lucas had to keep him around for the sake of the kids. That accent though, what the hell was Lucas thinking?

Threepio and Artoo- Hilarious, I loved them and they were used perfectly. But, R2 flying? I’m not the first to mention it and I’m sure I won’t be the last; that ability might have come in handy a few times later in his career.

The Kaminoan Cloners- These white aliens were far and away the best CG in the film, if not some of the best I ever seen anywhere. The luster of their skin, the smooth animation of their facial features, and those magnificent, cosmic eyes, it was angelic. (This is probably where someone informs me that those were makeup and costumes on really skinny actors, if so I apologize in advance if I’m speaking in error.) The interiors of the cloning facility were also remarkable.

Yoda- I thought his CG was weak personally and his lines in the first half were pretty clichéd, standard Yoda stuff. But, he dramatically improves towards the end and almost steals the show when he rides in with the cavalry. And, the Dooku battle was even better than I imagined, if only slightly shorter than I would have liked. He talks like Gandhi, leads like Patton, and fights like Jackie Chan. Combat Yoda, now this is worth paying $8.00 for.

Ian McDiarmid, Christopher Lee and Temuera Morrison – all three were terrific villains. I wouldn’t change a thing about any of them.

Well, that’s about it.

Did you not watch the movie? Or were you getting popcorn during the semi-major scene where R2 opens up his boosters and starts flying all over the place. Saving Amidala from the lava bucket?

Some random thoughts and responses:

Sweet Jesus! Warn a guy before you say something like that! I almost fell out of my chair laughing.

I’ve heard this comment before and actually thought the exact opposite: I think the tech was more progressed in episodes IV-VI than in the earlier films. The big difference is that style was no longer an option. Think about it: Ep I-III are about the waning days of the golden age of the Republic. People want crap that looks nice; they’re more worried about looking sharp. Ep. IV-VI, screw that, the universe is now officially a shit hole. We want functionality, not good looks. Which would you take in a battle: an X-Wing or Naboo starfighter? As for Luke’s vs. Anakin’s hand, maybe prosthetics had progressed mightily in the interm between the two of them losing their limbs. Although that might fly in the face of my form vs. function argument I think that it’s still reasonble: I might be wrong but I don’t think Anakin is as dexterous with his hand as Luke is with his. And once you’ve developed that depth of complexity with the prosthetic why not go the extra mile and put some realistic skin on it? I can’t answer your other questions though.

Hmm. On second thought there might be a reasonable explanation for the Uncle Owen C-3PO plot hole. I have to see the movie again but did Owen actually live on the farm in Ep. II? If he just visited occasionally and wound up inheriting the farm from his pop he might have completely forgotten about the shoddy looking droid (or at least his name) by the time he encounters him in Ep. IV. Either that or Alzheimer’s.

Uh, because the script says so? Seriously, I know what you mean. We know he can handle stairs because we saw it at least twice in the movie, and he’s got rockets to fly around with to boot, but he’s still not exactly agile. I hadn’t really thought of this before.

N’Sync was excised during editing. Sucks to be them.

Realitytrip, I’m not quite sure what you’re talking about with all the padawan acting like pricks. The only one I saw doing that was Anakin. That’s one out of how many?

As for the whole ignoring of the origin of the clone army, I think that necessity and expediency took front-seat over determining the origin initially, but they are still going to be puzzling over that. I hope it at least gets a mention in Ep. III anyways. I agree that Yoda should have been a bit more perplexed that someone’s erasing files from the Jedi archives. BTW, they didn’t know a Sith lord was in the senate. Obi-Wan was the first to find out and he didn’t have a chance to tell anyone before the movie ended. And besides, he got his info from Tyrannus so he might just figure that everything he said was bullshit.

As for sending Anakin to protect Padme, why not? Yoda knows that Anakin is acting a little loopy so why not give him a milk run to get him out of Kenobi’s way while the adults do the real work? Think about it: they mention several times how safe Amidala is on her own planet, does she really need extra protection?

To close, just a couple more mentions of stuff I thought was cool in the movie.
[ul][li]Kenobi’s hologram messages. The first time he’s freezing in the rain, and the second time he’s just freezing. Ewam McGregor made me feel cold, both inwardly and outwardly, from his delivery and demeanor. IMO some good foreshadowing about just how terrible the info he’s delivering will be to the Republic in the future. Plus I’ve just always dug the look of holograms in SW flicks.[/li]
[li]The Jedi starfighter. It reminds me a lot of the ships the rebels use in eps. IV-VI. The whole functionality over form again.[/li]
John Williams score. That man is a genius.[/ul]

Rather than adding anything new, I’ll respond to others’ comments:

Fenris: why did Yoda have to concentrate to stop that pillar?.. “Size matters not!” he said. “Jedis lie” I reply

Of course you’re right, and size does matter. Watch Empire again and see how hard Yoda has to concentrate to lift Luke’s ship.

Asylum, good summary of the secret plot, but you left out one thing, I think. We see at one point the blue guy with the antennae (I’m so bad with names) state that the Senate would never vote to grant emergency powers unless the Separatists made an initial attack. That, in addition to appeasing the Trade Federation, was a reason that Sidious (and Dooku) wanted Amidala killed. Also (and this is going out on a limb) he may know about Anakin’s thing for her, and want to accelerate his path to the Dark Side.

Gadarene: The prime minister on the rain planet mentioned that Jango had requested an unaltered clone for himself. I then couldn’t help noticing that when Kenobi saw the clones being trained for the first time, all the young men clones looked strikingly like the guy who was guarding Amidala at the beginning.

I’m not sure if you caught this from what people have been saying, but that unaltered clone that they mentioned was little Boba, Jango’s “son”.

BlackKnight: BTW, does anyone remember the color of Yoda’s lightsaber?

Green. I am sure of this.

gonzoron: If the whole senate cheers when Jarjar makes his proposal, why didn’t one of them already do it? Why did Palpatine have to trick Jarjar into it if enough of the senate was for it that it passed.

They needed someone with enough courage. (Say what you want about Jar-Jar, but he’s one courageous guy. He’d have to be to go up against a droid army with absolutely no skill.) You have to realize that what they were proposing went against the most basic ideals of the Republic. Even though everyone knew it was necessary, it’s hard to go against a millenium of tradition.

realitytrip: I find it hard to take the jedi seriously if this is the best they can do in a time of crisis, i.e. be pulled like puppets to their own destruction. Maybe the dark side is more powerful after all, hmmm…

Ding ding ding! You win! We know the Force is unbalanced at this point. The Jedi are clearly falling apart.

And speaking of that, everyone who’s being so hard on Jar-Jar for starting this whole mess, take note: Practically everyone in this film, from the Senate to Obi-Wan to Anakin to the Trade Federation to the cloners to Jango Fett to Amidala, is playing right into Sidious’s evil hands. Not the least of these pawns is the Jedi Council, the ones who should be the most aware.

Oh, and for everyone complaining about not showing Anakin kirking off and wiping out a clan of Tusken raiders, remember: this is a kid’s movie (Lucas’s words) and he wanted a PG rating. Showing some violence born out of hatred and anger is okay for a plot point, but an extended scene of a “good guy” mowing down people who can’t hold a candle to his fighting ability just because he’s in a bad mood was not a good idea IMO. Mind you I wanted to see him do more damage in that scene myself, but I can understand why Lucas did it the way he did. The implication was all that was needed.

I noticed in the credits that Jimmy Smits’ character was Bail Organa. I don’t remember anyone calling him by name though. He was Leia’s foster father, right?

Anyway, I liked the movie a lot, but it just didn’t have the same emotional impact that the original trilogy had. Plotwise I think it’s the best of all the movies, with all the maneuverings and secret deals and stuff, but there’s still too much stiff dialogue. At least the actors looked and acted like there were in the environments, and not standing on a set looking out of place because they can’t see the CG.

Some minor nitpicks:
What the hell was that thing Anakin got his arm stuck in on the conveyor belt? That didn’t make any sense to me, but the rest of the factory sequence was pretty cool.

Slave 1’s seismic bombs in the asteroid sequence sounded like a heavy metal guitar riff when they went off. I’m not sure if I dig that or not. Slave 1 is one of the coolest ships ever, and I also liked how Obi-Wan’s ship needed a separate hyperspace rig. Then again, what do you do if someone blows up your rig when you aren’t looking?

The chase scenes around Coruscant were exciting, but at times too much like 5th Element.

When you’ve got a bunch of kids doing blindfold lightsaber exercises, they should stand a little farther apart from each other.

Posted by gonzoron

See, I was thinking about that as well. Particularly the ships looking much more futuristic-ey. My explanation to myself is that under the Empire later on, there’s not as much disposable income to go around, all of it being taxed to support the armies. As such, nobody can afford to build sleek, funky new ships and speeders and stuff, and are stuck rehashing the really old stuff. I can’t remember where, but I recall at one point someone mentioning that the X-Wings were old fighters.

The hand I figured was just 'cause medical technology hadn’t advanced as far yet, and that was the best they could do. By the time Luke loses his, the technology is good enough and cheap enough to make it look natural.

Of course, this is all my personal explanation to myself, and there’s probably a better one out there. But…meh. Mine works for me. :wink: YMMV