Let’s try this in reverse order, and see how it goes.
Oh come on, there’s other options than that!
I’m not about to speak for her, but you’ll get no argument from me there. I’ve laughed more than my fair share at some of the rants and bitches here. One of my current favorites is the LiveJournal bitch-out.
Classic.
Beats me what she means by that. I know I didn’t read what she wrote the same way you did. It isn’t the random entertaining bitch-outs about something legitimate that bugs me. I get bugged by the gratuitous ranting and raving over and beyond the fuck this’s and that’s’s. It sometimes gets so carried away, people are telling a newbie- a legit newbie- to go fuck themselves on a wrought iron post because they worded the post wrong, or didn’t capitalize it in the right places- above and beyond shit, without a thought of the other person on the other end of that message.
It’s beyond anything fun or entertaining- it’s gratuitous.
But when it’s a good one, one with some zeal and emotion, hey, I’m readin’ along just like you.
Reverse-
Which is why you stay. Maybe you found a home here amongst friends. Friends that treat you like an equal.
Do you think it’s that, rather than your overly tolerant attitude?
Because you seem to say your willing to take anything. You found this place by accident and you weren’t going to go anywhere else. But, luck of lucks, it just turns out that the people here you can get along with.
Maybe the opposite has happened here, and here you’re amongst people that are supportive of what you say, or are interesting in you, that the few that criticize you don’t affect or bother you enough to leave.
Preview reveals-
An astute observation by MysterEcks.
I don’t know about Stoid, MysterEcks, but I doubt there’s a number of posters here who’d be sent into a deep depression because someone else called them a fucknuggit.
Obviously, yes. For example, there’s Stoid’s option, which is “Nobody post in a manner I don’t like.” My option is, I think, the less extreme of the two.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like what you described happen here. Do you have a link? I’ve certainly seen people make that accusation/excuse, usually because they’re being legitimatly trashed for something else entirely. Such as, “You people are only making fun of my Apollo hoax idea because I’m new!” No, actually it’s because your idea is stupid.
I think they treat me like an equal because I’ve proved myself to be their equal.
I’m not sure where you got this from my posts. If by “take anything,” you mean “take any consequences from posting here,” then, yes, I’m willing to take anything. Of course, this is easy for me to say, because I can’t really imagine any situation where I’d alienate the entire board, or even a significant fraction thereof. I found this place by accident, true enough, but I stayed because I can get along with most of the people here. I once accidentally stumbled into a neo-nazi forum. I didn’t stay there because I have nothing in common with those people, and wouldn’t be able get along with them.
Yes, but if I was posting with my head jammed up my ass, people here wouldn’t be supportive or interested. Instead, they’d knock apart my arguments, and if I kept on posting like an idiot, they’d flame me. And I’d deserve it.
It sounds to me, and correct me if I’m wrong, that you’re complaining mostly about flaming people for newbie mistakes. I don’t condone that sort of behavior, but I also don’t think that sort of behavior is very common on these boards. I think what Stoid is complaining about is any sort of intra-board bickering.
It is endlessly curious to me, Miller, how you can feel “dictated” to, and apparently become incensed by said “dictation” of this thread which makes no mention of you (and frankly I had no thought of you at all), yet you find it impossible to fathom that others might be legitimately wounded by digital viciousness and invective directed at them specifically.
I haven’t dictated a damn thing. I’ve done what everyone does: Expressed my opinion. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that it’s just peachy for one Doper to call another a vile, worthless pustule on the ass of the world, but for me to start a thread that decries such language and attitudes and encourages (to quote myself) peace love and understanding is somehow rude and unacceptable and I am wrong for expressing such thoughts? Forgive me if the logic you are applying escapes me completely.
As to whether the feelings that may be generated by what happens here are legitimate or not, Chris pointed out: this is not “just a message board”. Marriages have come from this place. The myriad Dopefests are not conducted in pixels. It is perfectly ludicrous to take the position that just because you can’t look someone in the eye while you tear them to shreds it doesn’t count. Wars have been started by people who never saw each other in person. And great love affairs the same. It does not demand flesh to be real. And I think it is awfully convenient to write off anyone who feels otherwise as being psychologically unstable.
I have not anywhere, anytime, insisted on perfect harmony, that’s just silly. Read this thread more carefully if that’s what you think. I just feel, and I know I’m not alone, that there are a number of folks around here that have taken the existence of the Pit a little too much to heart, and seem to view it as some sort of challenge to see just how shitty they can be. This has always been the case but I find it doubly true since the 11th, which I find doubly disheartening. Unlike yourself, I do not feel that WTC discussions devolving into Pit brawls is healthy. I don’t think it helps most people work out anything. I think, in fact I * know * that for many people it makes them feel ten times worse to find themselves adding to the hostility and ugliness in the world.
And in the end, Miller…perhaps it would be simplest for you to take the advice you believe so sound: if you don’t like what I’m saying, don’t read it.
In the interests of full disclosure, I cannot deny that there have been times I have whooped with glee when someone got themselves a new asshole courtesy of another Doper. But it almost invariably been because the person receiving a new asshole had carved out many a new one for others, and for far less cause. Making them long overdue. And because I will not do the reaming myself, I allowed myself some vicarious pleasure.
But if I ** were ** able to dictate, the new asshole recipient would never have behaved so badly to start with.
Incensed? Hardly. I disagree with you (obviously), but I’m not emotionally invested in this debate. Well, perhaps a little, but hardly “incensed.” “Mildly annoyed” maybe.
I didn’t know I had to be personally invited to chime in on a thread. Since your OP was casting a wide net, and I felt that I was under that net, I felt compelled to respond. I am crushed that I have not been at the fore-front of your every waking thought, but I think I can deal with it.
Oh, Christ, not this argument again. You expressed your opinion, I expressed my opinion. Everyone has a right to express their fucking opinion. I never said they didn’t. What I said was, I disagree with your opinion. Your opinion is that people shouldn’t use such languages and attitudes. To me, that’s you telling people how they should act. I think that your ideas of acceptable behavior are too restrictive.
I italicized that bit in your quote because I admired the way you subtly suggest that I’m against peace, love, and understanding. Like I said, no matter how much you deny it, you’re one of us.
Look, some people like fighting. The Pit, within certain limits, allows this. If you don’t like fights, or you’re especially sensitive to being insulted, don’t go in the Pit! It’s that fucking easy!
Never said such feelings were illegitimate. In fact, I said quite nearly the opposite. However, they’re just feelings. So somebody called you an asshole on the internet and ruined your day. BFD. That’s the sort of risk you take when you engage in human interaction.
Well, I know that for many people, it makes them feel ten times better. Does your many trump my many? Folks are different. If Pit brawls make you feel bad, don’t participate. If Pit brawls make you feel better, jump right in with both feet. Why does everyone have to be one way or the other?
But if I did that, I wouldn’t be enjoying myself half as much as I am right now.
Not so. I was barbecued and sauteed just because I gave examples about gender role stereotypes, but I explained how we need the real masculine and feminine roles filled. My post wasn’t fire-retardant, however:
I was also ripped on for starting a thread about the extreme sexuality in our culture. It’s getting so you can hardly ask a question anymore. I was trying to ask a legitimate question and few people took it seriously. I’ve begun to feel that I have to be extremely cautious and precise when I post, because someone will always find some angle from which they can flame (even if they agree with me!) and all the monkeys follow suit.
Saint? Hardly! Why just a few weeks ago I was taken to task by Gaudere, for calling Gaspode a “silly child” in GD. On the other hand, I’m glad that no one remembers my debut on the SDMB as Major Feelgud’s pit troll and alleged sockpuppet. (MysterEcks can probably fill you in… I’d have to say that Kimstu is the only Doper I can think of ready for canonization.
I can’t say whether tempers have been running higher of late; I’ve done my best to choose threads carefully. What I will say is that it would be nice if there were fewer overlapping threads; and more willingness on the part of OP-writers to read up on what’s been said so far. Not only is it tedious to have to repeat yourself a thousand times, and re-post your supporting links in one thread after another, it also tends to make you feel more pissed off.
Perhaps one of the moderators can post a special advisory notice on the counterproductiveness of multiple threads in which the very same debate is debated yet again?
Ecks, long time no see. I have to disagree about the electrons stuff. “Virtual” reality is a myth or, at best a linguistic convention. This form of communication is as real as letter-writing or telephone conversation. The fact that it allows us to communicate more anonymously and amongst a larger group of people only means that it is unlike any other media; but it doesn’t mean that “real” feelings aren’t at stake. I’m still flesh and blood and when someone hurts my feelings I react as flesh and blood. Yes, I can turn off my computer and not come back; but, then again, if a RL friend pisses me off I can also turn my back and walk away.
I think civility is a cool thing and part of our core human achievements. But I know what it feels like to want to want to treat your opponent to a marshmellow’s fate. And in RL I almost never have the opportunity to do it safely
I agree fully. I make a strong effort to stay civil. I’m not always successful but, when I am not, I take my lumps and apologize. There is a current exception, brought about by continued exposure to one person whom I am forced to admit I cannot stand. Fortunately, his opinion of me is as low as mine of him so we will be able to avoid each other.
In any large group of intelligent and opinionated people you will find some people whose personalities clash. Compared with my family, for instance, we get along pretty well here.
While I’d like to think I rarely if ever insult someone without great provocation, I also am in the class of those who feel that if you must, the Pit is the place for it. For that reason, I’ve never really understood the “can’t we all just get along?” pleas in this particular forum. But then, I have never to my knowledge either called or been called “scum,” “a piece of garbage,” or “a worthless piece of shit.” Although frankly it probably wouldn’t break my heart if I were, since I am also of the “this is just a message board, people” school.
I will say, however, that I have far, far more respect for posters who present their opinions and attempt to defend them, even if things get hot and tempers fray, than I do people who merely post “oooh, good point!” or “that is so true!” but who haven’t the guts to stand the flames themselves – those who sit on the sidelines and cheer when people they don’t like get ripped up one side and down the other, because they (the sitters) lack to courage to do the ripping. Play or go home, I don’t care, but to sit there in silent satisfaction as someone else dirties their hands in a way you secretly approve of but wouldn’t deign to do yourself . . . it’s cowardice and it’s hypocricy. I’d far rather have someone honestly tell me they think I’m a piece of shit, provided they are willing to live with the likelihood I will in turn invite them to fuck off.
I am no fan of profanity (this post and others notwithstanding), and I fully agree that mutual respect and basic civility should always be the order of the day. But if we all accomplished that all the time, there’d be no need for the Pit.
If it’s a good bitch, and the posters going at it are equally equipped with a fine repertoire of fitting jabs (An important distinction, in my opinion. Having one guy or gal, who’s obviously out of their league, or has no idea of the pit, isn’t to fun an experience to watch, in my mind) than I’m all there.
And most of the time, I stand by the side-lines and quietly cheer for whatever side of the argument I’m on.
Those exchanges are fun!
And maybe I thought this thread was about that. That is, to me, it’s becoming rare lately to have a good drawn out, emotional slugfest.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I find the jabs going on here lately, and amongst certain posters, as gratuitous, or/and undeserved slams.
In those cases, I want to say, “What’s the big deal? Relax. There’s a person on the other end of your ‘witty’ bitch.”
I like to be a nice guy and debate point to point, leaving the ad hominemattacks out. Heck, I can even find positive aspects to Wildest Bill’s posts.
Even in the Pit, I try to eschew profanity in my posts. when I disagree with a poster, Dropzone, for example, I may attack the viewpoint while respecting the poster.
However, there are some posters[sub]Otto[/sub]who ignite flame fests, and I have no problemm meeting insuklt for insult.
I view the Straight Dope as a fun message board to talk to people, and that’s about it. My boyfriend, my friends, and my family are where I am emotionally invested, not here.
But, don’t you see that that doesn’t matter? Whether or not Bill deserves to be called an ignorant, hypocritical, idiotic, wart-fucker is entirely besides the point. All that matters is what will make things better. What are the consequences of a vicious flaming? Does not enmity beget enmity?
Of course, I’ve particicpated in at least a couple “WB is an Asshole!” threads, so you can take my statements with a grain of salt.
Tryin’ to live the dream,
Jer
[quote]
If it’s a good bitch, and the posters going at it are equally equipped with a fine repertoire of fitting jabs (An important distinction, in my opinion. Having one guy or gal, who’s obviously out of their league, or has no idea of the pit, isn’t to fun an experience to watch, in my mind) than I’m all there.
[quote]
The difference, CHRIS, is that you don’t then weigh in merely to post “Excellent point, POSTER X! You are now my new best friend and I want to have your babies!” as if you’re deluded enough to think that adds anything to the debate or exchange.
Don’t get me wrong: I’m not advocating pile-ons, which I loathe. If my position is being adequately handled by someone else, I too hang back and let the fisticuffs fly where they will. But neither do I then post ass-kissing one-liners supporting one side over the other, when I either can’t or won’t add to the substance of the thread for fear of exposing my lily-white ass to the flames.
Sometimes people piss me off. If you piss me off enough, I will have something to say. And yes, I can be nasty (although no where near as bad as some of our Pit Masters). I’ve never been known to bite my tongue and I certainly won’t start doing it in The Pit.
