Then it must be damned hard for you to read Leviticus (which is the only place in the Bible where a prohibition against male homosexuality is stated) – because the earliest-available copies of Leviticus are in Hebrew.
Um, just popping in to suggest a reading of Romans 1:26-27 which is in the new testament.
I don’t speak Hebe and don’t plan to learn it. I typically read Leviticus in Greek, the earliest-available version in a language I am able to read. And if you really wish to make an issue of that, I will have to learn how to make the rolling-eyes face.
Of course, you understand YOU are the one hijacking this thread from it’s OP of reactions of christians to homosexuals and you’re trying to make it into a debate about whether homosexuality is against God’s Law.
I stated my opinion that it is as part of an explantation of my reaction. Clearly we disagree about that (PS - you’re wrong). If you want to discuss it further, start a new thread or something. I’m not going to debate THAT issue with you here any longer.
“Hebe”??? Um… What the hell?
Meatros: How far would I go? As far as possible within the Laws of God and the United States of America (including opposing new laws and trying to get existing laws changes as appropriate).
Other religions? If you mean am I out there trying to “outlaw” Judaism or Buddhism, e.g., then no. I pray for them to see the truth of our Lord and Savior, and I regret that they will not be saved, but that is all.
I support this statement, DrChuckie. But how Christians are to respond should be in a loving manner, telling them the truth. If they don’t listen, that’s their choice. As far as stamping out, only changed hearts in Christ will stop a person from being a homosexual. Even then, they may still struggle with it. I doubt if homosexuality itself will be completely stamped out. But, as you probably wouldn’t either, I would not vote to allow homosexual marriage or adoption, etc.
Oops, you’re right, I’d forgotten about that little passage.
Although on reading it in context, I note that the homosexual desires described in these verses were supposed to have been inflicted on a certain population by God as punishment for not worshipping God:
“25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator–who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”
Hebe? Hoo boy. . .
I have been following this thread but not posting because my thoughts have already been expressed well by other posters. The only thing I want from Chritians is to leave gay people alone. Don’t harrass us, don’t discriminate against us and don’t tell lies about us. Don’t picket us, don’t spit at us, don’t pass laws against us.
Stealing from the second link of DTCs,
(emphasis mine)
Unfortunately, I don’t have Boswell’s book here with me (left it in Ohio), but he shows that these marriages were clearly based on love and attraction. The saints and historical figures used in comparison (Serge and Bacchus, Jonathan and David, etc) and the words used to describe their relationships imply more than just friends.
I’m just speculating here, but would you have a problem with homosexuals if a different religion endorsed homosexuality and the homosexuals were of that religion? (Some how assuming that all homosexuals fit into this religion)
His4Ever: Yes. I should clarify that I pursue the eradication of homosexuality, not homosexuals – perhaps better to be even more precise and say I oppose “homosexual behavior and state sanctioning and acceptance of homosexual behavior.” I’m certainly not blind to the struggles of, or unsympathetic for those afflicted with homosexuality.
Meatros: re: “Hebe” Now that MUST have been a typo don’t you think?
If that’s the case, you’re doing yourself a disservice.
The well-known ancient Greek translation of the Old Testament, called the Septuagint, is rife with translation errors. Scholars at the time the Septuagint was produced just did not have the same fanatical dedication to precise translation that modern scholars do, nor did they have the forthrightness to place footnotes in their translations whenever there was an ambiguity in the original. The Septuagint translation of Genesis 37:3, for example, does not indicate that the original Hebrew could mean “coat of many colors” or “coat with full sleeves” or “richly ornamented robe”, for instance.
P.S. Appears to be a good website, DrChuckie. I’ve added it to my fave list.
I think it’s very suspicious. How do you miss the ‘r’ and the ‘w’ in an otherwise immaculate post?
Oh, DrChuckie? Have you met the Pit? Why don’t you mosey on over there, I think you will find a warm welcome.
Gobear: Despite what you may think, I have little problem with what you’re saying
I am not trying to change your life. You make your own choices. I think you are violating God’s law and I’ll tell you so, but I’m not trying to “outlaw” you or “pass laws against” you.
However, realize that there’s a world of difference between not passing laws against you and accepting laws to insert you into society. You want to be left alone, so do I. You don’t want my beliefs imposed on you, I don’t want yours imposed on me. I’m happy to leave you alone until you start promoting “gay marriage” laws, and insisting that “Susie has two mommies” be brought into classrooms.
Meatros: Yes, I still have a problem with it even if some “religion” endorses it. I’m not trying to round up all the homosexuals and have them put in a camp somewhere. I just don’t want THEIR beliefs forced on me any more than they want MINE imposed on them. So until the day you’re willing to have the Bible be a required part of the school curriculum, I’m not willing to have the “rightness” and “acceptance” of homosexuality be part of it either.
So God forced them to be gay, then punished them for it? Anyone else reminded of when your big brother grabs your hand forces you to hit yourself with it?
“Stop hitting yourself!”
“Stop hitting yourself!”
“Stop hitting yourself!”
Thanks for the clarification, DrChuckie. I also am opposed to homosexuality. Not because I don’t like it or have some personal hatred toward gays, but simply because God condemns it so I must say the same thing He says about it. But I believe that you’ll find that most on this board are in support of it. I’ve talked with them much about this subject in the past and haven’t been popular for my stance.
Don’t usually come here and post much anymore as I’ve been busy at a few other boards. Plus I’m on vacation and have more time this week. Anyway, I just wanted to lend you my support on this subject. You won’t find too much other support here for this, I’m sure.
I read a little of the website you posted and was appalled at what was going on at that Christian school, and the acceptance of it.
Actually, it was of three types. Confarreatio was the first type, like you described, with a ceremony, sacrifices, etc. The second was Coemptio, where a marriage contract was drawn up and a dowry exchanged, and the third was usus, which is what you described about two people setting up a home together.
Also, confrarreatio (and I think coemptio) marriages could be of two types, cum manus, where the wife was under the legal authority of her husband, or sine manus, where the wife stayed under the legal authority of her family.
(If you think this is complicated, Celtic Brehon law recognized 14 different kinds of marriage)
You read Greek, do ya? Good, read this. [symbol]Ei morion[/symbol].