Hot Stove for Baseball talk

The Game Room
1

I would suggest we post the rumors we are following and discuss.
At this early point I am only up on Yankee stuff.
The Matsuzaka bidding is complete and will be review Friday. So we should know by next Monday which team won the auction. Here are some stats.


 Matsuzaka's Career With Seibu
  	W-L 	ERA 	SO 	IP 
2006 	17-5 	2.13 	200 	186.3 
2005 	14-13 	2.30 	226 	215.0 
2004 	10-6 	2.90 	127 	146.0 
2003 	16-7 	2.83 	215 	194.0 
2002 	6-2 	3.68 	78 	73.3 
2001 	15-14 	3.60 	214 	240.3 
2000 	14-7 	3.97 	144 	167.6 
1999 	16-5 	2.60 	151 	180.0

I hope the Yanks take a good look at lefty reliever Hideki Okajima. He announced Nov. 1 he would file for free agency.
“After years of getting into trouble with the command of his forkball, Okajima has developed a devastating overhand curve and could be the bargain of the bunch.”

Mike Mussina is on the verge of signing a two-year deal worth $22 million.

Cashman’s next crossroads will be deciding where to trade Gary Sheffield – the Cubs and Phillies are among the front-runners.

Jim

2

[QUOTE=CBS SportsLine]
Johnny Sain, a three-time All-Star who teamed with Warren Spahn to make up one of baseball’s most fabled pitching tandems, died Tuesday. He was 89.
[/QUOTE]

Story is here.
He was a very well regarded pitching coach, highly respected by at least the Yankee pitchers that were lucky enough to have him as a coach.

Jim

3

I hear some weird parties involved in the Matzusaka deal here. The Rangers and Tigers included. You hear about the “gyroball”? Google it and let your eyes pop out of your dome.

I heard a rumor about the Tigers trading for Sheffield. I doooon’t think I like that rumor much, thank you.

4

Um…is this stove turned on?

Hello?

Pilot light lit?

Hm…

5

I want Carlos Lee. He needs to be a Tiger. They also need to sign him to a sensible deal, which won’t happen, because SOMEONE is going to pay him with large sacks of bills.

I don’t see the Tigers making many moves, though. I can see a Maroth-for-a-bat move, and, interestingly enough, I’ve heard Maroth for Sheffield.

Meh.

Aren’t you just ecstatic over the propect of getting another Tigers pitcher to fizzle in Yankee Stadium?

6

It looks like the Cardinals are going to give Edmonds a two year deal. Now, if Carpenter can start every game next year, the starting pitching will be set. :smack:

Then all we need is a second baseman, a couple more outfielders, figure out what we do with Duncan, where to put the trophy and the Cards will be set.

7

The Indians made a nice trade yesterday for a 2nd baseman, though they did trade away the first guy in MLB history to hit a grand slam on his first pitch in the majors.

There had been Sheffield rumors here, too, but I don’t want Sheffield. I just don’t want him.

8

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
The Indians made a nice trade yesterday for a 2nd baseman, though they did trade away the first guy in MLB history to hit a grand slam on his first pitch in the majors.

There had been Sheffield rumors here, too, but I don’t want Sheffield. I just don’t want him.
[/QUOTE]

Who was the 2nd baseman?

As far as Sheffield, I thought it was a terrible acquisition when we got him and it worked out better than I expected and I still wish we never got him. He is a king size jerk. I will be happy when he is gone. George wanted him, Cashman was pushing for Vlad. Which free agent RF sounds like a better pick up?

9

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Who was the 2nd baseman?

[/QUOTE]

They got Josh Barfield from the Padres for Kevin Kouzmanoff (3rd) and Andrew Brown (bullpen rh).

Good trade for both teams, I think. The Indians already have Marte for 3rd and have too many people at 1st.

10

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
“After years of getting into trouble with the command of his forkball, Okajima has developed a devastating overhand curve and could be the bargain of the bunch.”
[/QUOTE]

Can a multi-year, 8MM minimum per annum, on top of what is expected to be at least 20MM if not 25MM price just for negotiating rights, for a player who’s still never played 162 games (or for a pitcher, started 30+ games) in the Major Leagues, ever be called a “bargain”?

Given how pitching-hungry some very rich teams are, he might get it. That doesn’t make it a “bargain”…

And what will the Yankees do with Sheffield? He’s 38, is making veiled threats to dog it or something if not given a multi-year extension, and is coming off a year mostly spent on the DL. And what will the Yanks want in return? Probably what everybody is stockpiling – reliable relief pitching.

And wouldn’t it make more sense for an AL team to pick him up, so he could D/H at least part of the time? Ultimately it’s his bat that has to make up for his mouth and his outfield coverage (and has for most of his career).

11

[QUOTE=robardin]
Can a multi-year, 8MM minimum per annum, on top of what is expected to be at least 20MM if not 25MM price just for negotiating rights, for a player who’s still never played 162 games (or for a pitcher, started 30+ games) in the Major Leagues, ever be called a “bargain”?

Given how pitching-hungry some very rich teams are, he might get it. That doesn’t make it a “bargain”…

And what will the Yankees do with Sheffield? He’s 38, is making veiled threats to dog it or something if not given a multi-year extension, and is coming off a year mostly spent on the DL. And what will the Yanks want in return? Probably what everybody is stockpiling – reliable relief pitching.

And wouldn’t it make more sense for an AL team to pick him up, so he could D/H at least part of the time? Ultimately it’s his bat that has to make up for his mouth and his outfield coverage (and has for most of his career).
[/QUOTE]

Breaking NEWS

[QUOTE=ESPN]
The Detroit Tigers have acquired Gary Sheffield from the New York Yankees for three righthanded pitching prospects, the Tigers announced Friday.

In return for Sheffield, the Tigers sent Humberto Sanchez, Kevin Whelan and Anthony Claggett to New York. Detroit agreed to a two-year contract extension with Sheffield through the 2009 season.

The moves comes a aday after Sheffield angrily blasted Yankees management and said Bobby Abreu, the player who took his place in New York’s lineup, isn’t a good a player as he is.
[/QUOTE]

The pitcher I was talking about was a Japanese free-agent Lefty reliever, not Matsuzaka. Hideki Okajima is described as a crafty lefty with a devastating overhand curve.

I agree with your analysis on Matsuzaka. At the prices being described, he might be a huge crap shoot, I would rather pursue Zito than spend $75 million on an unknown quantity.

Jim

12

The beginning of the end for the Tigers. As with the others who’ve posted here, I wouldn’t want Sheffield on my team either, quick bat or not. But Leyland managed him in Florida, so maybe there’s some comfort zone there. Still, I don’t think they needed to make that trade.

Regarding Matsuzaka, and for that matter other Japanese players who’ve never played an inning in MLB: there’s no way in hell, if I were an owner, that I’d get my team involved in this sort of thing. Even if he comes over and wins 28 games and the Cy Young award, it does not necessarily follow that your team will win a championship thereby. Even with such production, you’ve still overpaid. I’d rather spread that money around and fill multiple holes, and pay for a pitching coach who can get 16-18 wins out of two or three of your developing young pitchers (assuming you’ve scouted well and have a few of those).

13

They overpaid for Sheffield. Humberto is going to be analagous to Carlos Zambrano. I’m not sure if his ceiling is that high, but he’s that type of pitcher.
I want Frank Catalanotto next.

14

[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever]
They overpaid for Sheffield. Humberto is going to be analagous to Carlos Zambrano. I’m not sure if his ceiling is that high, but he’s that type of pitcher.
I want Frank Catalanotto next.
[/QUOTE]

$13m this year, $14m for the next two. WTF?
The other two prospects are single A closers. Both righties and age 22.

I think Cashman did well here. We will have to see. Early reports include no cash from the Yanks and Humberto is Detroit’s #2 pitching prospect, possibly making an impact in 2008.

Jim

15

Definitely think the Yanks did very well, from what I’ve heard about Sanchez. He’s exactly the kind of prospect they needed in return in this deal.

re: Matsuzaka, there are rumors that the Red Sox posted the highest bid to negotiate with him, and that it’s possibly as high as the $40 million range - twice what was originally speculated. I’m of two minds on this one. On the one hand, it’s got the potential to be one of the most spectacular busts ever, putting this much money on a guy who’s never pitched in MLB. On the other hand, most of the scouting reports say he’s absolutely the best FA pitcher on the market, and you get to control him for six years (arbitration eligible after three). He’s 26, and he’s potentially an ace - there was a SI.com column yesterday that did a bunch of stat analysis on him and pegged his “closest statistical matches” as a bunch of REALLY good pitchers - Clemens the closest over the past four years. I don’t know if he’s really THAT good, but the chance to get a 26 year old ace without giving up any players comes around so rarely that it might well be worth the money for a team that doesn’t have real money issues. And as a bonus, the posting fee doesn’t count against the luxury tax under the CBA. So for the Sox, it might be the perfect gamble if the stories are true - Beckett, Papelbon, and Matsuzaka are all 26 and would all be under the Sox’s control for several years. That could potentially be a pretty damn good core, even ignoring Lester’s (hoped for) recovery and any other moves.

Apparently we’ll have to wait 'till Monday to hear the truth of the matter, though.

16

Wait…we PAID and gave prospects for Sheffield?

By the way, Sanches was our number two propect and the other two guys are our top two reliever prospects.
Dick.

17

The Rockies will go after a second-rate (read: inexpensive) center fielder and a third-rate (read: even more inexpensive) middle reliever and then announce for the tenth consecutive year that the rebuilding program is on track.

18

The “gyroball” is just an old-fashioned screwball. “Dice-K” may be effective with it in the bigs, if only because nobody else throws the scroogie anymore, but only if he can get it over the plate.

Rumor has it he’s coming to Boston. The Sox do have to do something big and expensive, but they need help in the pen more than the rotation.

19

[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]
The “gyroball” is just an old-fashioned screwball. “Dice-K” may be effective with it in the bigs, if only because nobody else throws the scroogie anymore, but only if he can get it over the plate.

Rumor has it he’s coming to Boston. The Sox do have to do something big and expensive, but they need help in the pen more than the rotation.
[/QUOTE]

The gyroball isn’t the same thing as the screwball. Different grip and different rotation.

Greg Maddux throws a pitch that’s similar, but doesn’t have quite the same rotation.

Matsuzaka’s not coming over this year, if Boston really did bid $40 million for him. They’ll play 30 days of phone tag with Boras, fail to reach a deal and let the entire league try to sign him in free agency next year. That bid was a “keep him out of the Bronx” move.

The Cardinals made an interesting move with the Edmonds deal. It works out to essentially the same amount for next year as picking up his option, but with an extra year. The thinking around the Cardinal blogosphere is that the 2008 year is insurance against Colby Rasmus not being ready before 2009, and there’s a good chance that the deferred money will convert to a personal-services contract if Jimmy retires at the end of the deal.

It’s a move to keep a potential HOFer in the organization so he can retire with St. Louis, and keep him around to help in Spring Training.

Other Cardinal rumors: Luis Gonzalez is apparently very anxious to sign a one-year deal thanks to a hard sell from Buck and McCarver during the NLCS. My guess is that he’d be platooned with either Duncan or Instant Breakfast in a corner slot (assuming Instant Breakfast isn’t dealt out of town.)

Weaver will be the primary pitching target among the free agents in the rotation, since Suppan’s going to get a big deal from somewhere else. Mulder’s drawing a lot of interest, but may still take a Carpenter-type deal to stay in St. Louis.

20

[QUOTE=brianjedi]
Matsuzaka’s not coming over this year, if Boston really did bid $40 million for him. They’ll play 30 days of phone tag with Boras, fail to reach a deal and let the entire league try to sign him in free agency next year. That bid was a “keep him out of the Bronx” move.
[/QUOTE]

At the very least, I would expect a sign-and-trade, the kind you’d see in the NBA - the Sox sign him to a contract to fulfill the bid-posting process, and immediately trade him to another team that has agreed on the contract, will pay the Sox most of the cash for the bid, will give the Sox a prospect or player, and is not the Yankees. I wouldn’t really be THAT surprised if they ended up signing him, though.