I’ve been vacillating between being completely against a mass claim and trying to find the utility of it at this point.
Well, those are the only two games I’ve seen with a side-chooser, a vote-charger, or a detective/princess. Three different unusual features in common, with nothing that doesn’t match, and where the first game is one where the moderator would have good reason for wanting to redo it, is enough evidence for me.
Here is my list of potential run-downs.
Confirmed (for me) - Red Skeezix, Wolverine
Potential scum but little to go on - ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, ScubaBen
Final 5 - **Suburban Plankton, Meeko, Astral Rejection, Idle Thoughts, Chronos
**
I would recommend waiting with the 2nd group until after we’ve found scum in the Final 5. There should be at least 2 (maybe more) scum in the Final 5. If we find scum there and the game is still going, we can switch to include the Potential scum.
Of those 5, Astral Rejection and Chronos seem most likely to be Town. I could be wrong, but that is my impression. So toDay I’m focusing on Idle, Meeko, and Suburban.
However, as soon as I started with Meeko I’m pretty sure I know who scum is:
-votes for ScubaBen here and unvotes here after being challenged by Plankton.
-doesn’t give a good answer for his vote either when he votes or unvotes
-after being challenged again by Plankton, he claims the vote is to cut dead weight, a placeholder vote. The problem with this strategy is that it is easy and ignores trying to find the scum who are playing. And there is a higher probability of lynching town (13 or 14 town versus 4 to 5 scum to start the game, 5:4 or 6:3 now). If they don’t participate, we don’t know. Of course, scum does know who is town and can try to get another mislynch.
-claims that Astral Rejection was using a WOW to distract people from himself but uses a quote from storyteller that was posted after the WOW. Meeko, please show us attention/heat that Astral was getting before he posted the WOWs. I wasn’t even going after him and he was attacking me pretty steadily before that.
-tries to throw attention on Red Skeezix as being possible scum even though he’s a “lover.” No one is ever 100% confirmed Town until word from the Moderator, but Red Skeezix is as close as they come. So why does Meeko try to throw attention on Skeezix? This doesn’t seem to make sense as either town or scum.
-as an extra bonus from Day 1. It looks like a good strategy from Meeko to throw up a smoke screen vote on scum-buddy Pleonast on Day 1 with very little substance. Then he switches it later to Pants based on some kind of “first instinct” that there is scum board communication during the day and Pants is being coached. Since we now know Pants wasn’t being coached, it looks more like Meeko was trying to find some weak excuse to switch his vote.
Vote Meeko
You know what, that’s a case I could really get behind. Meeko’s been pinging me lately, I think it’s time I went back and looked at him.
Wow. I think this is my first vote in this game. I guess it had to come at some point. I really thought this was going to be my best game ever. I guess someone can find “scum” in anything, including a noob.
First and foremost, I’m Town. But no one will buy that. Still, as it is truth, I can say it, and I must say it.
What is Scummy about my fraction of a second vote on Scuba? Was it the fact that it only lasted so long? Was it that I admitted I was wrong? Was it that, my god, I was completely honest about it?
If you were scum, you would be trying to get a mislynch too. You seem to know a lot about Ly/Lo math. Where does that come from? I really wonder why you guys are coming after me today. I mean, it would seem to me Wolf, that you know all about mislynching, as evidenced by my vote.
**
Why is the burden of proof on me to prove something Astral did**, or didn’t do? I don’t think this one is possible, it assumes knowing EXACTLY what Astral is thinking. If I could do that, I wouldn’t need to play Mafia, the game would be as fun as Tic Tac Toe… The only move is not to play. Asking me in Hindsight to prove something Astral did BEFORE the wow REEKS…REEKS of opurtunism.Scum needs to be proactive, the entire strategy of Bussing falls flat if this is not the case. Just because Story said something that Astral could have said in a moment of weakness, doesn’t mean that Astral wouldn’t have said it, it doesn’t mean that Astral wasn’t thinking it, **and it most certainly doesn’t mean Astral wasn’t acting on it, or something similar. **
I’m throwing Attention on Skeezix? Really? All I see is a conversation with Chronos over being one step behind him in his belief he is confirmed. I also see that I was the one to speculate on the ““language”” of lover. Just the opposite here Wolf, I still believe that Skeezix is 99.99% Town. I think that is the best we are going to get in this game.** Don’t fully bridge the gap here, that calling someone out at 99%+ TOWN means I’m calling him scum.**
After all of this, you bring up a Day 1 vote. Say it with me now, A DAY ONE VOTE. Can you Say opportunism? I knew you could. I guess the fact that Pleonast was a Scum Power role has no bearing on anything. I am not scum, but I would not bus Scum Power, I would not bus Scum Power on DAY ONE. To say the least, the Scum Detective. There is bound to be non-power scum. I would, if I were scum, bus them.
**
Instead, it remains a typical Day 1 vote by a townie. Completely wrong.** You can throw a stone and land on numerous bad Day 1 votes by town, in any game.
If I were scum, there would have been better votes. IIRC there was a LOT of vote switching in the early game. You would think scum would get in the middle of that, and not sit on the sidelines.
**Really don’t get why a vote is on me in part because I am playing the game better than the field here.
**
**Oh Wait, yes I do. **
**
Unvote All**
**
Vote Wolverine.**
OMGUS! No Wai, Meeko is OMGUSing! Whatever, You are wrong, and you can attempt to call my vote anything. As long as the vote stays, I don’t really care.
Pants was town, could it be possible that Wolf, another noob is Scum?
- Does math scare you? There were 18 players to start the game and 9 now. Some of them are town and some are scum. Town always outnumbers scum (because if it didn’t, scum wins). If the roles are assigned randomly and someone does not play for RL reasons, then we have no real way of knowing their alignment other than sheer probability which favors town. That’s not saying Scuba is town, WE JUST DON’T KNOW. I also believe that Scuba had RL issues because he was a substitute. If his play style was lurking, then I’d be more likely to believe he was scum.
Also, what does Ly/Lo stand for? I ask this as a noob.
-
In post #1077, you seem to remember some discussion that Astral was WoWing to distract attention from himself. You claim that this seems plausible. I have 2 questions. “Where is this discussion? I don’t remember it.” And “What attention was there before he posted his WoWs?” The only attention he seemed to get was afterwards. The WoW drew attention not distracted it.
-
What do you mean by this? I think you need to define the “something” and “it”.
**Vote Count
Cookies(2): Idle, Redskeezix
Wolverine(1): Meeko
Chronos(1): Suburban
Meeko(1): Wolverine**
You are talking numbers. Ly/Lo is Lynch or Lose. That is, if we mislynch today, we [town] will lose the game. Skeezix and Cookies have started talking about the possibility of being at or near Ly/Lo. You were giving ratios of 6:3 and 5:4 and I was commenting that those ratios are too close to describing Ly/Lo for my comfort. Worse, you are using them, and it doesn’t fit with you being an uncoached noob. The fact that you are asking what Ly/Lo is plays a part here as well. WIFOM on that bit.
The discussion was between Astral and Story. As with Plankton, so with you.
Good try on turning this question around. I liked it better as :
Meeko, please show us attention/heat that Astral was getting before he posted the WOWs. I wasn’t even going after him and he was attacking me pretty steadily before that.
My answer remains :
Why is the burden of proof on me to prove something Astral did, or didn’t do? I don’t think this one is possible, it assumes knowing EXACTLY what Astral is thinking. If I could do that, I wouldn’t need to play Mafia, the game would be as fun as Tic Tac Toe… The only move is not to play. Asking me in Hindsight to prove something Astral did BEFORE the wow REEKS…REEKS of opurtunism.
As to the amount of attention the endeavor created, I think scum have to take risk as a given. small risk for a huge reward after. I think scum will take the risk in terms of red herrings every single game.
Just because Story said something that Astral could have said in a moment of weakness, doesn’t mean that Astral wouldn’t have said it, it doesn’t mean that Astral wasn’t thinking it, and it most certainly doesn’t mean Astral wasn’t acting on it, or something similar
This is the ““something”” and “” It “” you want me to define, correct?
It is the act of throwing up red herrings. I assume that Astral could be throwing a red herring out by cherry picking a few players to WOW. How Astral would do this, exactly, is up to him. I am not Astral, I would not know, hence, I can only make general statements about it.
Something is therefore used to indicate that the red herring method is approximate. I’m not about to guess the combination of ways scum can throw out herrings. Suffice to say that I think there is the possibility that it is being done here, in general, and I did not want to pass it by without comment.
Meeko, it is an OMGUS vote. In fact, it’s the second OMGUS vote you’ve made Today. Is this one going to stick any longer than the first two, or are you just trying to make sure everyone gets included?
Meeko, the burden of proof is on you for what Astral did because you’re the one who claimed he did it. You’ll see that all over this board, in Mafia games and elsewhere: You make a claim, you prove it. And while Astral obviously didn’t know what reaction he would get, he certainly knew how people were already reacting to him, and if nobody was paying him any attention before that, he couldn’t have been trying to distract attention away from himself.
And now you’re attacking Wolverine because he knows how to add and subtract? Maybe he didn’t know what the acronym LyLo stood for, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to grasp the underlying concept even without the name.
Or are you attacking him because one of the noobs was Town and therefore the other is Scum? Or is it just pure OMGUS? Whatever, none of those is a good reason for a vote. Between that and your no-good-reason vote on Scuba, I’m comfortable with
Vote Meeko
Yeah, Astral did indeed make some WOWs. 
This makes no sense at all.
You are the eyewitness to a murder, so we will arrest you for that murder.
I wonder if your attitude would be any different if I had actually voted for Astral with that offhanded comment.
At least you aren’t calling it a FOS like Plankton has.
And again with the Scuba Vote.
** Can someone please explain to me why having a vote on someone for a fraction of a second is bad, especially when you unvote them and then honestly admit to your mistake?**
Vote Count
Cookies(2): Idle, Redskeezix
Wolverine(1): Meeko
Chronos(1): Suburban
Meeko(2): Wolverine, Chronos
Just a quick check-in. I was AFK for Monday night until now; I’m still catching up. I think I’ll skip ahead to page 19 through here, then do 9 - 18 when I can.
That, we can agree on. But you further claimed that his motive for making them was to distract attention from himself. That’s the claim that needs further evidence.
**
I’m not sure I can prove that today, or on any other day, given any game set up. Not sure any Town member can do this. **
I understand what you are saying, however, you are demanding proof from me as if I had voted for Astral in the first place.
I don’t think your vote on me, because I lightly mention Astral is valid. I didn’t vote Astral, if I had, then you would have every right to vote me.
And again, the scuba thing, I thought was dead and gone. I unvoted, admitted I was wrong, and was honest about the entire thing.
I’m skipping around some, and wound up on pages 16-17, Dawn of Day 3. The main thing I see there is where Cookies claimed to have chosen Town after having killed Chipa.
What I’m stuck on (echoing story in #820) is that Cookies would of course claim Town. So as far as I’ve caught up, I haven’t seen anything to independently verify Cookies’s claim. Or for that matter, her claim that she was a one-shot independent Vig. In case I’m missing the obvious yet again (or more likely haven’t read that page yet), if there is corroboration would someone please point me to it.
Meanwhile, just so I’m on the record, I think Cookies’s known ambiguous side is suspicious enough for now. And I want a vote down Today. I expect to change my vote later, as my catch-up continues.
vote ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
In other matters, I reread my freak-out at the start of Day 2, regarding the Oredigger lynch. I wasn’t suckered in; I was persuaded by reasonable cases that turned out to be incorrect. Then I overreacted, which could not have helped my 2 week absence from the Dope.
Anybody who’s played with me before knows that my play style is best described as “terrible.” I’ve been in a 3-player final Day twice and lost it for Town both times. At least I know that if I’m in the final Day again, whoever I want to vote for is almost certainly the Townie, so I ought to vote for the other one. (OOG: This is actually how I’ve learned to tell between identical twins. If I think I’m talking with E, I’m most likely talking with her twin H.)
Follow up on #839: ushi pointed out that Cookies killing a mason forced Red Skeezix to claim as the other mason. But just like Cookies, is there any independent verification of Red’s claim? I have to allow the possibility of a false claim in an attempt to draw out a real mason.
Or has that been discussed already?
Aside from an investigation result from a confirmed player or my death, there is no way to independently verify my claim, though a few people have been using metagame comparisons to Harry Potter towards somewhat of the same effect to the limit of how my role apparently works, not which side I chose.
**Vote Count
Cookies(3): Idle, Redskeezix, Scubaben
Wolverine(1): Meeko
Chronos(1): Suburban
Meeko(2): Wolverine, Chronos
About 49 1/2 hours 'til one of you dies.**